Do catholics believe that Jesus went to hell
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In the so-called catholics, "Apostles creed", They say Jesus went to hell.
Do they really believe it, Or are they telling porkies AGAIN.
Remember, The whole world believes hell is a place for the damned, wicked, sinners and spirituall dead people, A place of torment.
And thats what the world hears when they hear the catholics quote,
"Jesus went to hell".
SO, Do you believe Jesus went to hell,
OR ARE YOU TELLING PORKIES??.
If you meant, "Paradise", You should have said it, As there was only two places in the underworld, Paradise/Abrahams Bosom, And hell.
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the actual words are not that he went to hell but descended into hell.. kind of like he descended to earth. his choice. the implication is that those in the underworld would now hear the gospel and see christs victory over even death and hades. i can understand g4 if your theology would be afraid of jesus descending to hell because your idea of jesus is not biblical. but to the early church it not only held the idea of victory over death and corruption but showed the authority of god was not limitted to just heaven. he set the captives free.
now another problem with your understanding is what the afterlife was like for the jews.. they did believe in paradise and they believed in gehenna. this is the word translated as hell although other words like sheol refer to the underworld. but for the most part sheol was an absolute where gehenna was a purgatory.. in jewish belief most people that went to gehenna suffered for 12 months and then were released and only the worst people were not. point is that your evangelical concepts of the afterlife are interfering with the understanding that the early church and judiasm actually held.
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
the actual words are not that he went to hell but descended into hell.. kind of like he descended to earth. his choice. the implication is that those in the underworld would now hear the gospel and see christs victory over even death and hades. i can understand g4 if your theology would be afraid of jesus descending to hell because your idea of jesus is not biblical. but to the early church it not only held the idea of victory over death and corruption but showed the authority of god was not limitted to just heaven. he set the captives free.
now another problem with your understanding is what the afterlife was like for the jews.. they did believe in paradise and they believed in gehenna. this is the word translated as hell although other words like sheol refer to the underworld. but for the most part sheol was an absolute where gehenna was a purgatory.. in jewish belief most people that went to gehenna suffered for 12 months and then were released and only the worst people were not. point is that your evangelical concepts of the afterlife are interfering with the understanding that the early church and judiasm actually held.
1]You haven't answeard my quetsion, Do you believe Jesus went to what the world considers hell,The place of torment where sinners go??.
[2]Jesus is the only one to use "Gehenna", For hell, And it's in realtion to the soul and body going there, Matt 5: 29. Matt 10: 28.
This is the lake of fire, As the resurrected bodies and the souls go there.
Whereas Sheol/Hades is only for the soul. Lk 16: 22--23.
Acts 2: 37, & v31.
Gehenna is a permenat place, Rev 20: 12--15.
So, Did Jesus go to hell[The place of torment] Or not??.
If not, You have no right to deceive people into thinking He did.
If not,You should have said, Jesus descended into the lower parts of the earth, Ehp 4: 9.
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I believe that Jesus decended into Hades, which is equivalent to the original meaning of Hell.
I am not concerned with what you think the modern English definition of Hell is. Forget the 21st century English language, but the Bible was not written in English.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Good point Faith!:) G4 this would not be happening if everyone had the same spirit it took one devil to defect and then hell came about then one devil of a man to defect and others who were innocent followed.Unless we are all of one mind one belief there are many people that will not make it into the Lord grace no matter what they claim.
Posted by an anonymous reader - "Protestants think we are all equal in the church but I know we are not all equal because God does not in trust his word to just anyone and we are told not to cast our pearls amongst swine. If they were all equal then they all would have been bishops right? Please explain this is important to the Protestant beliefs:) They are all leaders of how many churches???? But they close in time or are found [misleading], sorry but i have found this to be true of many. Blessings and Peace."
In response to the above previously submitted comment offered by an anonymous reader, the following are excerpts from the chapter titled "One Church - One Faith" in my soon to be published Book titled "Christianity In Catholicism".
Simply put, we are all equal as children of God but each person is predisposed to the amount of grace they can receive limited by their own choices in the love of God. People will be judged by God according to the lives they have lived and in comparison to the life we are called to in our Lord Jesus Christ. Those who are officially representing the church or hold authority within the Church are also held to a higher level of responsibility than those who are lay persons. As scripture says, more will be expected from those who receive more.
As for the numerous divisions of churches or the number of Christian faiths that exist, there are also numerous verses throughout scripture that clearly proclaim the solidarity all are called to in faith. For example:
“God is faithful: by whom you are called unto the fellowship (oneness) of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing and that there be no schisms (divisions) among you; but that you be perfect in the same mind, and in the same judgment.” (1 Corinthians CH1: vs9-10).
“…he is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he (not man) may hold the primacy: Because in him, it hath well pleased the Father, that all fullness should dwell; And through him (not man) to reconcile all things unto himself (not to man, but reconciling man to Himself as well), making peace through the blood of his cross, both as to the things that are on earth, and the things that are in heaven.” (LV Colossians CH1: vs18-20)
[Also refer to (Ephesians CH4: vs11-16)]
“…keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. One body (one Church) and one Spirit (Holy Spirit); as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” (Ephesians CH4: vs3-5)
“…you who once were alienated and hostile in mind because of evil deeds he has now reconciled in his “fleshly body” through his death, to present you holy, without blemish, and irreproachable before him, provided that you persevere in the faith, firmly grounded, stable, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, am a minister.” (Colossians CH1: vs21-23)
“They strengthened the spirits of the disciples and exhorted them to persevere in the faith, saying, "It is necessary for us to undergo many hardships to enter the kingdom of God."(Acts CH14: v22).
The birth of Protestantism and the principle of Sola Scripture not only defies scripture in its independence and rejection of the teaching authority of the Church, but
during its relatively brief life it opposes scripture by its own unbridled splintering proving itself an unsound principle opposing the very source it claims to stand upon, the Holy Bible.
“For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine but, following their own desires and insatiable curiosity, will accumulate teachers and will stop listening to the truth and will be diverted to myths.” (2 Timothy CH4; v3-4)
Though most Christians regardless of church affiliations are to be recognized as children of God through Baptism, sincere in their seeking that righteous path to Christ, most are clearly a scattered flock begging to be home in true faith but not knowing of where they may find the truth because of bias misconceptions. We desire to be right in what we believe in order to know Jesus as intimately as possible and live the life He calls us to in the love of God.
In accordance with the numerous scripture passages provided above and throughout the book chapter we must first come to the understanding that from the very beginning of Christianity we were first called to learn and then persevere in our faith and that there can be no division in what we accept in faith or encourage of others. Now immediately let me say if any person claims this is not true, let he or she who claims it untrue show support from scripture that diversity in systems of beliefs is acceptable and how such an interpretation does not conflict with the verses provided here; because above all, scripture does not conflict with itself. There are many well meaning individuals with advanced levels of education who defend their own denomination or even the existence of numerous denominations by way of apologetics but each lacks one thing that is critical in making that final judgment they believe worthy to teach others. They do not properly know the true teachings of the Catholic faith and many are fearful to learn because of what that will mean.
One Church can represent only one faith, one teaching rendering one system of beliefs that Jesus calls all people to live by. Where two or more systems of beliefs or “faiths” exist in opposition they can not be one. Where two or more conflicting systems of conduct are encouraged for living a Christian life, only one can be authentic and fulfill Christ’s calling.
“And let the peace of Christ control your hearts, the peace into which you were also called in one body. And be thankful.” (Colossians CH3: v15)
“May the God of endurance and encouragement grant you to think in harmony with one another, in keeping with Christ Jesus, that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ.” (Romans CH15: vs5-6)
"I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.” (John CH10: v16)
Also refer to (Colossians CH1: vs21-23),(2 Timothy CH2: vs11-17), (1 Timothy CH4:v16).
“…Conduct yourselves in a way worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that… you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind struggling together for the faith of the gospel,” (Philippians CH1: v27)
Today there exists between thirty to forty thousand Christian faiths that have been established over the last four centuries, the logical person should feel compelled to ask how this can be. Each of these faiths by way of their ministerial leaders claims its correctness in presenting a true understanding of scripture and Christian observance. At the same time, each offers distinctive and at times opposing direction to their followers as to the principles of faith that are or are not necessary for a person to adhere to in living the Christian life all are called to in Christ. In Fact, the principles of Christian life are not selectively optional. Jesus commanded His Apostles:
“Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." (Matthew CH28: vs19-20).
But those who take on the roll of shepherds in the name of Christ also take on some of the responsibility for the souls they provide guidance:
“Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew CH5: vs18-19)
Consider which founder of any other system of beliefs is justified through scripture to establish a new or revised Christian faith? Is it perhaps Martin Luther or Zwingli, Henry VIII, Calvin, Knox, Cartwright, Brown, John Smith, Seabury, Fox, Wesley, Lindsay, Joseph Smith, Jr., Campbell, Ann Lee, Stone, Miller, Russell, Felix Manalo, Mary Baker Eddy, Parham, Chuck Smith, Herbert W. Armstrong, or Fillmore, just to name a few. Which one is justified by scripture to establish and teach others a revised faith based on their own judgments? Not one. Which one is not in opposition to scripture? Not one. Which one is justified to reconcile all things on earth including the Church Jesus founded with His Blood and all things in Heaven through himself and to himself in the name of Jesus Christ? Not one. Each founder judged their own opinions to be correct over someone else. Not one could see clearly enough to remove the beam from their own eye [(Matthew CH7: v3), (Luke CH6: vs39-41)] that they may realize their own waywardness from the warnings of scripture.
Yet, by the warnings of scripture that tell us sinful men and times of corruption would occur within the Church, we are also told to persevere, never divide or separate or found a new church or faith. That Christ Himself would reconcile all things on earth and in Heaven to and through Himself. Those scriptural warnings further validate the Church Jesus founded which will never fall but remain against the gates of hell with Jesus as its High Priest to the consummation of the world.
I hope these excerpts have been of some guidance. The full chapter will be available soon in the upcoming book "Christianity In Catholicism".
The time for reunification is passing by as we speak. B3 from Divine Mercy site.This all makes sense:)
baby3
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
In the so-called catholics, "Apostles creed", They say Jesus went to hell.
Do they really believe it, Or are they telling porkies AGAIN.
Remember, The whole world believes hell is a place for the damned, wicked, sinners and spirituall dead people, A place of torment.
And thats what the world hears when they hear the catholics quote,
"Jesus went to hell".
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 G4 If you believe that Jesus and the Father are one God then why would Jesus not be able to go there and get others to hear his words? Why would he let them rot in a place like that? His love is far beyond what you or I could ever imagine and he wants that no one would be lost.If he and the Father made a place for them that did not hear the word of God and the New testament to then of course he went there to teach and preach the living word o those who never could reject it because they never herd it? Jesus can go anywhere because the bad and evil angels shake at the very name of Jesus.I have no fear in saying and knowing he was there setting ALL THE CAPTIVES FREE!!!!
To think they changed that verse to support itchy ears of unbelief!!
B3
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SO, Do you believe Jesus went to hell,
OR ARE YOU TELLING PORKIES??.
If you meant, "Paradise", You should have said it, As there was only two places in the underworld, Paradise/Abrahams Bosom, And hell.
baby3
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http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a5p1.htm
Catechism of the Catholic Church
quote:
ARTICLE 5
"HE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN"
631 Jesus "descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens."476
Eph 4:9-10.
The Apostles' Creed confesses in the same article Christ's descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:
Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, your Son who lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen.477
Paragraph 1. Christ Descended into Hell
632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was "raised from the dead" presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.478 Acts 3:15; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 15:20; cf. Heb 13:20.
This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead.
But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.479 1 Pet 3:18-19
633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Phil 2:10; Acts 2:24; Rev 1:18; Eph 4:9; Pss 6:6; 88:11-13
Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom":481 Ps 89:49; 1 Sam 28:19; Ezek 32:17-32; Lk 16:22-26.
"It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482
Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483 Mt 27:52-53
634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."484 1 Pet 4:6
The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesus' messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ's redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.
635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."485
Jn 5:25; cf. Mt 12:40; Rom 10:7; Eph 4:9
Jesus, "the Author of life", by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."486 Heb 2:14-15; cf. Acts 3:15
Henceforth the risen Christ holds "the keys of Death and Hades", so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."487 Rev 1:18; Phil 2:10
Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . "I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead."488
IN BRIEF
636 By the expression "He descended into hell", the Apostles' Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil "who has the power of death" (Heb 2:14).
637 In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven's gates for the just who had gone before him.
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476 Eph 4:9-10.
477 Roman Missal, Easter Vigil 18, Exsultet.
478 Acts 3:15; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 15:20; cf. Heb 13:20.
479 Cf. 1 Pet 3:18-19.
480 Cf. Phil 2:10; Acts 2:24; Rev 1:18; Eph 4:9; Pss 6:6; 88:11-13.
481 Cf. Ps 89:49; 1 Sam 28:19; Ezek 32:17-32; Lk 16:22-26.
482 Roman Catechism I, 6, 3.
483 Cf. Council of Rome (745): DS 587; Benedict XII, Cum dudum (1341): DS 1011; Clement VI, Super quibusdam (1351): DS 1077; Council of Toledo IV (625): DS 485; Mt 27:52-53.
484 1 Pet 4:6.
485 Jn 5:25; cf. Mt 12:40; Rom 10:7; Eph 4:9.
486 Heb 2:14-15; cf. Acts 3:15.
487 Rev 1:18; Phil 2:10.
488 Ancient Homily for Holy Saturday: PG 43, 440A, 452C; LH, Holy Saturday, OR.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 05/07/2012 08:31:29
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G4. What does the lower parts of the earth mean? It is an idiom. It doesn't mean Jesus went to the grand canyon or on some vacation. He descended into the depths to preach the gospel and truly overcome death. I guess your Jesus didn't really die? Is that the insinuation your making? Hell in the older understanding, especially the Jewish, was underground. Jesus was buried, in the grave (Sheol) but did not know corruption. Gehenna also in Jewish terms was a purgatory, and I know you will not accept that but it is true. So it makes sense that Jesus would go to such a place and lead the captives free.. Keep in mind that we also believe Jesus ascended on high, but we say he ascended to heaven. Because just like the lower parts of the earth are an idiom so is this term. Now do you think Jesus ascended to heaven or just on high?
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I believe that Jesus decended into Hades, which is equivalent to the original meaning of Hell.
I am not concerned with what you think the modern English definition of Hell is. Forget the 21st century English language, but the Bible was not written in English.
That doesn't answear my question, Do you believe Jesus went to hell, The place of torment, As the world views hell??.
If you don't, Why do you say He did??.
Why don't the catholics say Jesus descended to the lower parts of the earth, Or the underworld.
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quote:
Originally posted by baby3
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
In the so-called catholics, "Apostles creed", They say Jesus went to hell.
Do they really believe it, Or are they telling porkies AGAIN.
Remember, The whole world believes hell is a place for the damned, wicked, sinners and spirituall dead people, A place of torment.
And thats what the world hears when they hear the catholics quote,
"Jesus went to hell".
---------------------------------------------------------------------
G4 If you believe that Jesus and the Father are one God then why would Jesus not be able to go there and get others to hear his words? Why would he let them rot in a place like that? His love is far beyond what you or I could ever imagine and he wants that no one would be lost.If he and the Father made a place for them that did not hear the word of God and the New testament to then of course he went there to teach and preach the living word o those who never could reject it because they never herd it? Jesus can go anywhere because the bad and evil angels shake at the very name of Jesus.I have no fear in saying and knowing he was there setting ALL THE CAPTIVES FREE!!!!
To think they changed that verse to support itchy ears of unbelief!!
B3
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SO, Do you believe Jesus went to hell,
OR ARE YOU TELLING PORKIES??.
If you meant, "Paradise", You should have said it, As there was only two places in the underworld, Paradise/Abrahams Bosom, And hell.
Where does the Bibles says Jesus went to preach the gospel to those in hell?.
Where does the Bible say that those who are in hell will be released, Apart from when those in hell are cast into the eternal lake of fire??.
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quote:
Now do you think Jesus ascended to heaven or just on high?
Over his head, that's for sure.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a5p1.htm
Catechism of the Catholic Church
quote:
ARTICLE 5
"HE DESCENDED INTO HELL. ON THE THIRD DAY HE ROSE AGAIN"
631 Jesus "descended into the lower parts of the earth. He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens."476
Eph 4:9-10.
The Apostles' Creed confesses in the same article Christ's descent into hell and his Resurrection from the dead on the third day, because in his Passover it was precisely out of the depths of death that he made life spring forth:
Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, your Son who lives and reigns for ever and ever. Amen.477
Paragraph 1. Christ Descended into Hell
632 The frequent New Testament affirmations that Jesus was "raised from the dead" presuppose that the crucified one sojourned in the realm of the dead prior to his resurrection.478 Acts 3:15; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 15:20; cf. Heb 13:20.
This was the first meaning given in the apostolic preaching to Christ's descent into hell: that Jesus, like all men, experienced death and in his soul joined the others in the realm of the dead.
But he descended there as Savior, proclaiming the Good News to the spirits imprisoned there.479 1 Pet 3:18-19
633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, "hell" - Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek - because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Phil 2:10; Acts 2:24; Rev 1:18; Eph 4:9; Pss 6:6; 88:11-13
Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into "Abraham's bosom":481 Ps 89:49; 1 Sam 28:19; Ezek 32:17-32; Lk 16:22-26.
"It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham's bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell."482
Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483 Mt 27:52-53
634 "The gospel was preached even to the dead."484 1 Pet 4:6
The descent into hell brings the Gospel message of salvation to complete fulfillment. This is the last phase of Jesus' messianic mission, a phase which is condensed in time but vast in its real significance: the spread of Christ's redemptive work to all men of all times and all places, for all who are saved have been made sharers in the redemption.
635 Christ went down into the depths of death so that "the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."485
Jn 5:25; cf. Mt 12:40; Rom 10:7; Eph 4:9
Jesus, "the Author of life", by dying destroyed "him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and [delivered] all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage."486 Heb 2:14-15; cf. Acts 3:15
Henceforth the risen Christ holds "the keys of Death and Hades", so that "at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth."487 Rev 1:18; Phil 2:10
Today a great silence reigns on earth, a great silence and a great stillness. A great silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. . . He has gone to search for Adam, our first father, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow Adam in his bonds and Eve, captive with him - He who is both their God and the son of Eve. . . "I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. . . I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead."488
IN BRIEF
636 By the expression "He descended into hell", the Apostles' Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil "who has the power of death" (Heb 2:14).
637 In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven's gates for the just who had gone before him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
476 Eph 4:9-10.
477 Roman Missal, Easter Vigil 18, Exsultet.
478 Acts 3:15; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 15:20; cf. Heb 13:20.
479 Cf. 1 Pet 3:18-19.
480 Cf. Phil 2:10; Acts 2:24; Rev 1:18; Eph 4:9; Pss 6:6; 88:11-13.
481 Cf. Ps 89:49; 1 Sam 28:19; Ezek 32:17-32; Lk 16:22-26.
482 Roman Catechism I, 6, 3.
483 Cf. Council of Rome (745): DS 587; Benedict XII, Cum dudum (1341): DS 1011; Clement VI, Super quibusdam (1351): DS 1077; Council of Toledo IV (625): DS 485; Mt 27:52-53.
484 1 Pet 4:6.
485 Jn 5:25; cf. Mt 12:40; Rom 10:7; Eph 4:9.
486 Heb 2:14-15; cf. Acts 3:15.
487 Rev 1:18; Phil 2:10.
488 Ancient Homily for Holy Saturday: PG 43, 440A, 452C; LH, Holy Saturday, OR.
[1]Why won't you catholics answear mmy question??, Do you believe Jesus went to hell,[Hell as the world knows it], The place of torment?.
[2]Jesus never preched the gospel to those in prison, In 1 Pet 3: 19.
[3]Jn 5: 25, Is talking about the resurrection day.
Keep Jn 5: 25--29 in it's right context.
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
G4. What does the lower parts of the earth mean? It is an idiom. It doesn't mean Jesus went to the grand canyon or on some vacation. He descended into the depths to preach the gospel and truly overcome death. I guess your Jesus didn't really die? Is that the insinuation your making? Hell in the older understanding, especially the Jewish, was underground. Jesus was buried, in the grave (Sheol) but did not know corruption. Gehenna also in Jewish terms was a purgatory, and I know you will not accept that but it is true. So it makes sense that Jesus would go to such a place and lead the captives free.. Keep in mind that we also believe Jesus ascended on high, but we say he ascended to heaven. Because just like the lower parts of the earth are an idiom so is this term. Now do you think Jesus ascended to heaven or just on high?
[1]Why are you catholics afraid to Answear the question, It is simple enough, Do you believe Jesus went to hell[As the world knows it], A place of torment..STOP BEATING ABOUT THE BUSH, And answear me.
[2]Gehenna isn't purgatoty, It's the eternel lake of fire.
Jesus is the only one to use "Gehenna", For hell, And it's in realtion to the soul and body going there, Matt 5: 29. Matt 10: 28.
This is the lake of fire, As the resurrected bodies and the souls go there.
Whereas Sheol/Hades is only for the soul. Lk 16: 22--23.
Acts 2: 37, & v31.
Gehenna is a permenat place, Rev 20: 12--15.
Where does the Bible say hell is purgatoty??. Scriptures please.
[3]Where does the Bible say Jesus lead the captives free??.
ANSWAER THE QUESTION, Do you believe Jesus went to hell the place of torment??. And stop being to scared to answear.
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I didn't post so that I could read it.
I posted it for you to read it.
It's very clear what the Catechism says about the Creed.
P.S. Pope Benedict apparently disagrees with your private interpretation of Scripture.
Go figure.
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Jesus descended into hell. I'm not afraid to say Jesus loved us enough to do that. I was taught this as a Baptist, though, so you might want to get onto them, too.
And no, Gehenna is more like purgatory - a place for temporary atonement. It's not the same as our modern concept of hell (much less, like your childish concept of hell as a place merely for physical pain) .
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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It should be considered, what the theology was for Jews of the Second Temple period concerning the afterlife.
And to consider that these theologies exist today for Jews in that they don't believe that their Messiah has come.
And also, that the views expressed in this article seem to be general and opinion based (and may be inaccurate) in that no source material is quoted. It appears that this author believes that the ideas of the afterlife were amalgamations of human need, and not based first in revelation through God.
http://www.talmidi.co.il/htm/articles/articles54.htm
quote:
The Afterlife
Overview
In Judaism, views of the afterlife vary. They are based on the three main views of death that have developed over time within the Israelite tradition: She’ol, which was a shadow-world of unknowingness, to which people went to after death; in time, after contact with Babylonian and Persian religion, Israelite sages began to feel that She’ol was not enough, hence evolved a belief in the Resurrection of the body in the last days. Finally, the belief in a soul evolved, alongside a belief in the existence of heaven. If one follows through the logic of each, the three views are mutually exclusive, but various Jewish sects in the past and present have tried to reconcile them to include them all.
Talmidaism, unlike Orthodox Rabbinical Judaism, does not make any definitive statement on the nature of the afterlife; it is considered a matter of personal faith.
What follows is a basic description of the three views of the afterlife, and the various attempts to reconcile them.
She’ol (The Shadow-world)
This should not be confused with the Gentile Christian idea of Hell, or the Greek Hellenist idea of Hades; Judaism does not have any belief in Hell. Earliest Yahwism had no concept of the soul; in contrast to the Egyptians, who believed that human beings had a soul which survived them after death, the early Hebrews had no such concept. When a person died, they went to a shadowy under-world, and that was it.
It was believed that this shadow-world existed beneath the earth (Isa. 7:11, 57:9; Ezek. 31:14; Ps. 86:13) simply because that is where bodies were buried. The dead existed there without knowledge or feeling (Job 14:13; Eccl. 9:5). Silence reigned supreme; and oblivion was the fate of those who entered (Ps. 88:13, 94:17; Eccl. 9:10). Hence it was known also as “Dumah” or ‘the abode of silence’ (Ps. 6:6, 30:10, 94:17, 115:17); and there God is not praised (Ps 115. 17; Isa. 38:15). It was an unpleasant, dark, bleak and disorderly land (Job 10:21-22).
The dead existed there as mere shadows or wraiths (= rephaim; Isa 14:9, 26:14; Ps. 88:5), where human beings have no strength to do anything. Sleep was their usual state (Jer. 51:39; Isa. 26:14; Job 14:12), and return from She’ol was not expected or anticipated (2Sam 12:23; Job 7:9-10; 10:21; 14:7).
Hebrew folk mythology held that the gates of She’ol were in the west, where the sun set. Seven gates guarded the approach to the place, at the first of which was a watchman. A stream of water flowed through She’ol (Ps. 18:5; II Sam. 22:5; Bk of Enoch 17:6, 22:9;). Graves were protected by gates and bolts; therefore She’ol was likewise similarly guarded. It was believed to have different compartments for separate clans and families, just like tombs.
The origins of She’ol go back into earliest antiquity, probably the folk beliefs of the earliest Hebrews. Primitive peoples had similar beliefs, believing that caves and hidden entrances led down into the abode of the dead.
What this view of the afterlife did, was to concentrate one’s efforts on what one did in this life. Salvation was very much what God did in this life; and the fact that both the good and the wicked returned to the same dust was a source of consolation to those who saw the wicked prosper and the good remain destitute.
Resurrection
Once the early Hebrews made contact with the Babylonian, Persian and Assyrian religions, with their views in a life after death, it was not enough that a person should exist in a dark shadow-world of unknowingness. It was felt that there had to be something more, so the idea of the resurrection of the body developed. However, Resurrection still assumes no belief in a soul.
The main difficulty was to figure out what the resurrection actually meant. Questions began to arise: In what state was the resurrected body – whole and healthy, or as it was when it died? If a woman was wife to several men during her lifetime, whose wife would she be upon resurrection? Was resurrection universal, or only of the Jewish people, or only of the righteous. And when did this resurrection happen? Was it to form part of the Messianic redemption of Israel, or was it to usher in the final judgment.
It was eventually believed that in the last days, before the Messianic Age (Isa. 24:19; Dan. 12:2), all the dead would be resurrected, all the human race would be judged, the wicked would be sent back to She’ol to dwell in eternal unknowingness, while the righteous would be allowed to dwell on earth and live forever in eternal peace.
The first discontentment with an eternity in She’ol is expressed in Job 14:13-15. In Dan. 12:1-4 (about 165 B.C.) a resurrection of "many . . . that sleep in the dust" is looked forward to. This resurrection included both righteous and wicked, because some would awake to everlasting life, others to “shame and everlasting contempt.”
The Prophet Isaiah said that God says, “Your dead men shall live, my slain shall rise again. . . the earth shall disclose her blood, and shall cover her slain no more" (Isa 26:19-21).
The belief in resurrection gave greater comfort to those who sought justice in the afterlife when it didn’t seem to happen in this life.
Heaven and the Soul
Originally, the Hebrew word shamayim only meant sky; the earliest Hebrews had no belief in heaven, and therefore saw no need for a separate word for it. As the belief in an abode of God and His angels developed – and therefore a separate place for the pious dead - a distinction was made between sky (shamayim) and what we now understand as heaven (shmey ha-shamayim – ‘sky of skies’, or ‘heaven of heavens’, or even ‘highest heaven’; see Deut 10:14, 1Kgs 8:27, 2Chr 2:6, 6:18, Neh 9:6, Ps 115:16). However, in the late Second Temple Period, shamayim was used to mean both sky and heaven.
Many scholars contend that a belief in heaven arose only after contact with other religions, but the embryonic potential for a more developed theology about heaven was already there – for example, where did people like Elijah, Enoch and the other pious dead go? Where did the angels that Jacob saw abide?
Once a theology with regard to the soul being distinct from the body developed, it was inevitable that a belief in heaven should also evolve. Some ancient theologians (eg Philo) thought that the three separate words sometimes used for soul, refer to different aspects of the soul. However, it is more likely that each word marks three different stages in the evolution of the belief in the soul, each generation searching for an existing word to describe the nascent belief: ruach, which normally means ‘spirit’ or ‘breath’; nefesh, which normally means ‘living being’ or ‘life-blood’; and finally neshamah, a word which contains all the ideas of the previous two, and the word used for soul in modern Hebrew. This last word marked the development of a belief that the soul was something distinct from the body, something that survived the body after death.
Once a belief in the soul developed, spurred on by the teaching that holy people avoided She’ol and resurrection altogether to go and dwell with God, curiosity evolved on where the pious actually went. There was a common belief in the pre-existence of the souls of all human beings; therefore there had to be somewhere where the souls existed before life, and after death.
At the time when a belief in heaven came to be more fully developed, it was too late to include the teaching in the Hebrew Scriptures. The later psalmists had already recorded their disagreements with resurrection, declaring that a resurrection was impossible (cf Ps. 88:10, 115:17). A similar view, which made a resurrection unnecessary, was held by the authors of Pss. 49 and 73, who believed that at death only the wicked went to She’ol and that the souls of the righteous went directly to God.
A belief in heaven (where the soul lived eternally, free of the body), gained new impetus with the advent of Platonic thought and Hellenism. Although a belief in the eternity of the soul and heaven did not originate with Hellenism, it gained greater currency amongst Jewish people at that time.
In the late Second Temple Period, around Yeshua`’s time, teachings on heaven became extremely complicated. Some sects believed that Heaven contained seven levels, some ten, some believed there were even more. All the sects had three basic levels of heaven: first, a place where souls were purified of their sins (the lowest heaven); secondly, a place where souls dwelt throughout eternity once purified (the middle heaven); and thirdly, a place which was the exclusive abode of God and his archangels (the highest heaven).
Belief in heaven gave people a sense that there was something more than this life, a purpose greater than what we could see and understand. More than the other two views, it accorded better with what ordinary people experienced in their personal spiritual lives.
Reconciling the various beliefs
It should be noted that the Hebrew bible contains belief in She’ol and resurrection, alongside an embryonic belief in heaven and the soul; yet all three are mutually exclusive. One cannot therefore use scripture to prove or disprove what happens in the afterlife, since different parts of the Miqra contain evidence for and against all three. However, this is what Second Temple Period Judaism tried to do.
The first theological reconciliation came with the development of a belief in a soul; it was considered that the soul was reunited with the body at resurrection. Still, the difficulty remained of where this reanimated body would be – in an earthly paradise, or a heavenly abode. Beliefs in heaven held that the dead were judged at death; this clashed with the resurrection belief that souls were judged at the end of the world upon resurrection. Some sects taught that the soul was judged twice, but it seemed illogical why a soul should be judged, purified, go to heaven, be reunited with their body, be judged again, with the possibility of going back to She’ol.
Modern Judaism
There are few if any who still believe in all the theology surrounding She’ol; if it is retained, it is a merely a place apart from God where the soul goes before going to heaven. Only the Orthodox still believe unwaveringly in the Final Resurrection; the Conservative/Masorti Jews do not lay any great emphasis on it; and the Reform and Liberal Jews have for the most part abandoned belief in the Final Resurrection altogether. The vast majority of Jews believe in a soul and in heaven.
Most Talmidis believe in heaven and a soul, most do not believe in the final resurrection of the dead; a small minority do.
Summary
From the above, one can see how beliefs concerning the afterlife have evolved over time; also how complex they have become. We cannot know for certain what life after death will be like, and we cannot force views and beliefs on the afterlife upon one another. Therefore we can only return to the original Yahwist Israelite mindset – that how we live this life is what ultimately matters, and that YHVH saves us and forgives us in this life.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 05/07/2012 10:27:03
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