Prove where Mother Mary was burried?
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How can you or have you ever proved your own faith? Don't you want to know if you have been lied to or not?Please prove if you can where Christ mother was burried and how you know(Please don't tell me the Pope told you so:( Tell me you went there or how you found out Thank You!
baby3
Edited by baby3 on 05/10/2012 15:43:59
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no pope ever told me.. however there is a tradition of religious art and iconography that depicts the dormition. planning a blog when the feast of the assumption comes. anyway.. i can't even prove that jesus rose from the grave, apart from the testimony of the church which includes the bible.. i don't think it would be possible to prove mary was assumed or that she wasn't.. i know several years ago an ossuary was found that was supposedly that of james and jesus... and many others have also popped up. what is interesting is that mary, joseph, jesus and several others were very popular names in those centuries.
anyway, my take is that assumption is possible. it apparently happened to moses and enoch as well. but i couldn't prove any of them.
sorry g4 but a bible verse isn't proof of anything other than tradition and that is what we are really parsing out here.
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I read it in early Church documents that her body went missing. I forget which ones, but they made sense given what the Church taught.
The early practice during the first century Jerusalem was to lay the dead in tombs until the flesh rotted away and then pack the bones away in ossuraries which are about a third of the size of a regular coffin and so they can be stored in larger numbers in niches in the tombs.
You can confirm this with the Naked Archeologist - he is also more for entertainment, but he is right about this and is not so far off the mark in most things.
That is why it is easy for me to understand why someone would notice that Mary's body was missing. And the practice fits in with how Jesus was buried as recorded in the New Testament.
Another thing that rings true is the matter of relics. We Catholics prize our relics and the most powerful relics would be those of the Blessed Virgin Mary. It would be amazing to have such relics if they existed, but they don't.
Even the earth from the tomb that held Mary's body even briefly is a prize that is sold on the internet - don't buy any, as there are two sites claiming to be the real deal, and this is a scam. But the fact that people are successfully selling dirt just because it might be from the grave site of the Blessed Virgin Mary shows just how important it would be to have her actual burial site and even more so if it had a body.
We know where all the Apostles are. Early Christians were meticulous in keeping track of all the bodies of the Martyrs. They risked their lives to rescue the bodies of the Christians who died in the arenas during the persecutions. This was so very important becuase of our belief in the Resurrection of the body. Yet, the earliest documents have Mary's body going missing. They document that her body is missing. They knew where she was buried, but she was not there any longer, and bodies were not in the habit of being stolen.
These would be the most important relics on earth. But they are not here any longer.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
no pope ever told me.. however there is a tradition of religious art and iconography that depicts the dormition. planning a blog when the feast of the assumption comes. anyway.. i can't even prove that jesus rose from the grave, apart from the testimony of the church which includes the bible.. i don't think it would be possible to prove mary was assumed or that she wasn't.. i know several years ago an ossuary was found that was supposedly that of james and jesus... and many others have also popped up. what is interesting is that mary, joseph, jesus and several others were very popular names in those centuries.
anyway, my take is that assumption is possible. it apparently happened to moses and enoch as well. but i couldn't prove any of them.
sorry g4 but a bible verse isn't proof of anything other than tradition and that is what we are really parsing out here.
[1]You mean Elijah and Enoch, [Not Moses].
[2]You said,
[Quote]
a bible verse isn't proof.
[End quote].
I know you catholics don't believe the Bible.
I know you can't prove your doctrines from the Bible, I've been telling you that for a long time.
[3]The Biblical, "Tradition", Is the Bible, [Or at least the word of God].. So The Bible is the only proof.
There is no such thing as the [catholics tradition]In the Bible, It is something they have made up because they don't believe the Bible, So they add there own teachings.
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St. Paul said that we are to stand fast in the Traditions given to us, whether by written epistle OR by word of mouth. Not everything is in the Bible.
But all Catholic traditions are supported by the Bible and none contradict what is in the Bible.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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NO! The site I gave you has the body of Mary and others I believe they fled after the Romans crucified Jesus they probably went after all the rest when this happened to prove that Jesus and his family were liers That what they did back then and even today Mafia goes after you and then your family.
baby3
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Please copy and paste the actual paragraph from that site that says this.
I read it through and it said that the body of Mary Magdelene was there. The Bascilica is named for Mary Magdalene, not the Blessed Virgin Mary.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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The Romans only crucified Jesus to appease the Jews who were ready to riot. They had no interest in the rest of the family.
And the historical documents show that Mary travelled with John to Ephesus, not France. John, Mary and several others lived for a while in Ephesus and this is attested to by Paul and others. Mary likely died there although I do not know that they buried her there. John ended up being exiled to the Island of Patmos. If the Romans really wanted to get Mary, John would have taken her to France himself and they would have both been there instead of in Ephesus.
In the scriptures, Jesus gave Mary to John for him to look after. He would never have abandoned her or sent her off on her own.
Historically, there is no evidence to support that site's claims even of her travelling on a ship to France. That is a complete fabrication.
Anyone can say anything, but that does not make it true. I can show you documents to support my position, but she has shown nothing to support her position. She did not even identify what "other documents" she was drawing on for her information.
Why believe a fraud. If she could prove her position, she would have evidence, but it is all made up in her imagination. Only peices of it are true - there really is a Bascilica in France. You can go there. But the rest is fake.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 05/11/2012 15:13:10
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quote:
[1]You mean Elijah and Enoch, [Not Moses].
actually i did mean moses. it was a belief of the jews that moses also was taken to heaven.. this can be verified josephus. it also explains why moses was seen with elijah on the mount of transfiguration.. now i'm not going to argue that it is fact because i don't really hold that it is.. my point from the start is that you cannot prove either way. there is enough to go with and enough to take away from either side.
quote:
[2]You said,
quote:
a bible verse isn't proof.
[End quote].
I know you catholics don't believe the Bible.
I know you can't prove your doctrines from the Bible, I've been telling you that for a long time.
catholics do believe the bible.. but that doesn't mean the bible is proof g4. you cannot prove the things in the bible are true just by the quote. you need to verify it, and like it or not you cannot empirically prove a lot of what the bible has to say.. that is why faith is important, and reason. as for what you have been telling us catholics... it's not important until you start to prove your own docrines first. i really don't care what you think or say when you cannot even prove being born in the spirit.. the only think that has proven is your hypocricy...
quote:
[3]The Biblical, "Tradition", Is the Bible, [Or at least the word of God].. So The Bible is the only proof.
well of course it is g4.. it is a proof of a tradition held by the ancient church. but that is only a testimony. you cannot put the bible through a lie detector.. you cannot put paul through one. your only left with a tradition and reason and faith.
although i think your sect is only left with a conspiracy theory.. as they don't really have a tradition, they lack reason and they turned faith into a means of financial gain.
[quote]There is no such thing as the [catholics tradition]In the Bible, It is something they have made up because they don't believe the Bible, So they add there own teachings.
so your saying the catholics made up the bible? nice... that's a new one.. oh wait no it's not.. the same idiots who say that the catholic church started in 300 ad also say that we invented the bible then too... but silly evangelicals only hold that part of the argument which helps their petty case... it's like their whining about Mary and how catholics are pagan yet don't address the pagan christ arguments which they just ignore..
your problem g4 is confirmation bias. don't be sad it's a hard thing for people to get past, especially when they are not concerned about truth.
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Hey Faith!! I went through all of her site then I befriended her on face book to.She is some kind of a mystic but I thought Catholics liked this stuff?She does ceremonies in Australia with a circle and crystals and does some Egyptian things and Astronomy etc.She does not deny that Mother Mary is there and Mary Magdalene to. OK Why did Mary Magdalene even go to France??? How did they know about this place back then? Who was from the holy lands that was french? We don't even know their last names do you? How about Sinclair for starts? B3
baby3
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Mystics are fine. She is not a mystic, she is a medium who channels spirits. This is forbidden in the Catholic Church.
Crystals and those ceremonies she performs are all New Age junk that has been gaining popularity even among some Catholics, but it is dangerous and wrong. These are all forbidden in the Bible.
The story of the journey of early Christians to France is provided in the EWTN article I gave you. That also does not have citations, but does have dates and names that help for verification.
Early Christians also made it to India too. The names of places may have been a little different, but they were able to travel to all sorts of places.
Some of the information was gathered by oral tradition and later written down and then reinforced through archeological discoveries.
As for the issue of last names, and the rest of the questions, not sure how to answer you. I don't know that anyone from the Holy Lands was French. But the geographic area existed long before it became France as we know it. And the Roman Empire grew to be very extensive, covering a very large geographic area which included France, even during the time of the Christian persecutions. The Romans even made it to England and even to Germany.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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I have herd it said that the person to watch for coming with the Antichrist and false prophet will be in the bloodline of ST CLAIR
baby3
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Rumour. There will be lots of rumours. I have heard that the Antichrist will be a Muslim, a US President, or a very rich and powerful man of Jewish decent. But the Bible tells us what we need to know.
The Gates of Hell will not prevail against His Church. It does not matter who the Anti-Christ will be. What matters is that he will be against the Catholic Church, and will teach falsely.
Watch for those seeking to deceive by telling people what they want to hear.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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All I want to hear is the truth that's it in a n ut shell:):) It is easier for me to do my rosary in the morning going to bed right now:) meow:)
baby3
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
St. Paul said that we are to stand fast in the Traditions given to us, whether by written epistle OR by word of mouth. Not everything is in the Bible.
But all Catholic traditions are supported by the Bible and none contradict what is in the Bible.
What Paul said was,
"Stand fast in the word of God that was given, Either by letter of word of mouth".
And that ll we have to do.
There is no such thing as the catholic tradition in the Bible, And your traditions do contradict the Bible.
STOIP TELLING LIES.
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
quote:
[1]You mean Elijah and Enoch, [Not Moses].
actually i did mean moses. it was a belief of the jews that moses also was taken to heaven.. this can be verified josephus. it also explains why moses was seen with elijah on the mount of transfiguration.. now i'm not going to argue that it is fact because i don't really hold that it is.. my point from the start is that you cannot prove either way. there is enough to go with and enough to take away from either side.
quote:
[2]You said,
quote:
a bible verse isn't proof.
[End quote].
I know you catholics don't believe the Bible.
I know you can't prove your doctrines from the Bible, I've been telling you that for a long time.
catholics do believe the bible.. but that doesn't mean the bible is proof g4. you cannot prove the things in the bible are true just by the quote. you need to verify it, and like it or not you cannot empirically prove a lot of what the bible has to say.. that is why faith is important, and reason. as for what you have been telling us catholics... it's not important until you start to prove your own docrines first. i really don't care what you think or say when you cannot even prove being born in the spirit.. the only think that has proven is your hypocricy...
quote:
[3]The Biblical, "Tradition", Is the Bible, [Or at least the word of God].. So The Bible is the only proof.
well of course it is g4.. it is a proof of a tradition held by the ancient church. but that is only a testimony. you cannot put the bible through a lie detector.. you cannot put paul through one. your only left with a tradition and reason and faith.
although i think your sect is only left with a conspiracy theory.. as they don't really have a tradition, they lack reason and they turned faith into a means of financial gain.
[quote]There is no such thing as the [catholics tradition]In the Bible, It is something they have made up because they don't believe the Bible, So they add there own teachings.
so your saying the catholics made up the bible? nice... that's a new one.. oh wait no it's not.. the same idiots who say that the catholic church started in 300 ad also say that we invented the bible then too... but silly evangelicals only hold that part of the argument which helps their petty case... it's like their whining about Mary and how catholics are pagan yet don't address the pagan christ arguments which they just ignore..
your problem g4 is confirmation bias. don't be sad it's a hard thing for people to get past, especially when they are not concerned about truth.
[1]Joshua 1: 1.
he Bible rests it's case.
[2]You have to say the Bible isn't proof, Because you know your doctrins aren't in the Bible.
[3]The catholic traditions aren't in the Bible.
Of cause the catholics made their traditions up, DON'T YOU KNOW ANYTHING??.
[4]Your owm Fr Mitchell Pacwa admits the catholics were formed until at least 300---600 years later.FACT.
Edited by God4me on 05/12/2012 22:31:31
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