The sign of the true Church
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The signs of the true Church.
1 Cor 14: 26 says when you come together,[ Every Church meeting]
Everyone of you, Have a Psalm, a doctrine, a tongue, a revelation and an interpretation of tongues.
PLEASE NOTE.
This is for the whole congregation, not just Minister.
Who in your church has the tongues, Who has the interpretation. Who has a revelation??.
Yet The Bible says these should be operating in a Church service.
1Cor 12: 8-10.
There are three groups of gifts,
[1]The revelation group.
The Word of wisdom, [An insight into future events]
The Word of knowledge, [Either knowledge of past of present an events]
And the discerning of spirits. [Seeing into the spirit world, Either Angels of demons]
These all reveal something
Who has the word of Wisdom, In your Church? Who has the Word of knowledge
In your church??, Who has the discerning of spirits??.
[2]The Inspiration gifts.
Tongues, Interpretation of tongues and Prophecy.
These all say something.
Who give the tongues, Who interprets them, Who has the prophecies??
Paul said we can all prophecy, 1 Cor 14: 31.
[3]The Power gifts.
Special faith, Gifts of healings and the working of miracles.
Who has the gift of faith, Who has the gifts of healings?? Who has the working of miracles??.
These all do something.
Mk 16: 17--18.
Even if not everyone has these gifts, There should be someone in your congregation who does these things on a regular basis., Not just the Minister.
Rom 15: 19.
Paul preached the full gospel with mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God.
Who does the mighty signs in your church.??.
By being Spirit filled.. You will
Speaks in tongues, Acts 2; 4.
Do miracles, Act 4; 31--33..
Give wisdom, Eph 5:: 17--18.
So the TRUE Church has the power and the gifts of the Spirit operating in them.
Does the sound like the catholic church??.
Remember, I have seen catholic church services, And there hasn’t beem a single gift of the Spirit operating in them.
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St. Paul also said the tongues would cease.
And even in his own time he told his parishes that if no one could interpret the tongues that they should stop doing this during the liturgy of the Mass.
St. Justin Martyr in 150 AD gave a clear picture of a Mass - which centered on Eucharist for the Baptized. Justin never mentioned the speaking of tongues during Mass at his catholic parish.
I've viewed tongue worship services on toutube and there's no interpretation ability. Which according to St Paul - is invalid during the liturgical process of worship.
Jesus said there was one action in which He would be present. In the wine and in the breaking of the Bread.
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St. Francis of Loyola founded an order on the discernment of spirits. Meditations on our consolation with God and our desolation from God. Very useable material for everyday life and for daily examinations of conscience.
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God4me why are you trying to disconnect the Church in the bible with the Catholic Church?
The Catholic Church is the Church in the bible.
A sign of the true Church is that it was first. Everybody know Protestants came 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 67th, 890th, 1,200th, 34,000th etc, etc the whole point is that Protestantism came after the Catholic Church which was first & thus true.
The Catholic Church has history that goes back to the very first century. Protestants do not. Protestantism began with Martin Luther in the 16th century.
Protestantism even has to get the bible from the Catholic Church. No Protestant denomination can make the claim that it produced the bible. Not one. Not one.
Through bigotry prejudices false assumptions & false premises Protestants are protesting a catholic church made up by Protestantism that does not actually exist.
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
St. Paul also said the tongues would cease.
And even in his own time he told his parishes that if no one could interpret the tongues that they should stop doing this during the liturgy of the Mass.
St. Justin Martyr in 150 AD gave a clear picture of a Mass - which centered on Eucharist for the Baptized. Justin never mentioned the speaking of tongues during Mass at his catholic parish.
I've viewed tongue worship services on toutube and there's no interpretation ability. Which according to St Paul - is invalid during the liturgical process of worship.
Jesus said there was one action in which He would be present. In the wine and in the breaking of the Bread.
[1]There you go again, MISQUOTING THE BIBLE.
Paul said tongues would cease,
He didn't say they have ceased DID HE??.
He tells us when they will cease, And that isn't this side of eternity.
PLEASE KEEP IT IN IT'S RIGHT CONTEXT.
[2]There you go again, MISQUOTING THE BIBLE...YOU REALLY ARE VERY NAUGHTY, AREN'T YOU.
Paul was speaking about the tongues that have an interpretation, Saying, If there is no interpreter there, Don't give a message in tongues.
But he then says, Speak to yourself and God in tongues.
PLEASE KEEP IT IN IT'S RIGHT CONTEXT.
And Paul never mentiomed anything about the liturgy of the mass, stop tellling lies.
There was no such thing as the, mass in Bible times, That came some 300-600 years later when the catholics started.
[3]Tongues that are to be interpreted, Are just one of the
[At least]eight operations of tongues that are recorded in the Bible.
And one of the operations of tongues, is to praise and worship God,
1 Cor 14: 15--17.
So, STOP TELLING LIES.
your not doing very well AGAIN..are you.
[4]Jesus is present all the time, Not just in the communion service.
He certainy isn't in the catholic eucharist service.
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
St. Francis of Loyola founded an order on the discernment of spirits. Meditations on our consolation with God and our desolation from God. Very useable material for everyday life and for daily examinations of conscience.
And what was his definition of the, "Discerning of spirits".
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The Mass is a good deal more than just the minister.
Prophesying is more than predicting the future, it is speaking he Word of God - whether by reciting oral tradition as reading the written epistles.
The Epistles were written with the intent that they would be read aloud during the worship services when they gathered to break bread.
I read from the Epistles during the Mass and thus "prophesy". Others serve in various capacities.
Many non-Catholic groups try to imitate what they think is in the Bible to recreate a worship service, but they lack the tradition or historical reference to truly understand the truth of it all. The Early Church Fathers, like Justin Martyr, give a much broader desciption of the liturgy. What they present is like what is given in the Bible but with more detail.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by michael
God4me why are you trying to disconnect the Church in the bible with the Catholic Church?
The Catholic Church is the Church in the bible.
A sign of the true Church is that it was first. Everybody know Protestants came 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 67th, 890th, 1,200th, 34,000th etc, etc the whole point is that Protestantism came after the Catholic Church which was first & thus true.
The Catholic Church has history that goes back to the very first century. Protestants do not. Protestantism began with Martin Luther in the 16th century.
Protestantism even has to get the bible from the Catholic Church. No Protestant denomination can make the claim that it produced the bible. Not one. Not one.
I take it you are joking??..AREN'T YOU??.
If you have read the new testament Church, You'll see that the catholic church has no resembalnce to it.
If the catholic church is the Biblical one, Who in you church gives the message in tongues, Who interprets them?, Who has the gifts of healings?. Who does the miracles?.
Who has the revelation gifts?.
You are getting protestants mixed up with Christians, The Christian Church was here from the day of pentecost.
The protestants came when the reformers protested against the
un-Biblical catholic church.
If the protestants came after the catholic, And the catholics weren't here for the first 300-600 years, Who were God's people
from the start??.
The answear is, The TRUE Christian Church.
We have always been here.
Matt 28: 20. Eph 3: 21.
My Bible was translated from the original Greek by King James and his Scholars.
SO, If the catholic church is the true Church, Please answear the questions in my first post.
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The Mass is a good deal more than just the minister.
Prophesying is more than predicting the future, it is speaking he Word of God - whether by reciting oral tradition as reading the written epistles.
The Epistles were written with the intent that they would be read aloud during the worship services when they gathered to break bread.
I read from the Epistles during the Mass and thus "prophesy". Others serve in various capacities.
Many non-Catholic groups try to imitate what they think is in the Bible to recreate a worship service, but they lack the tradition or historical reference to truly understand the truth of it all. The Early Church Fathers, like Justin Martyr, give a much broader desciption of the liturgy. What they present is like what is given in the Bible but with more detail.
There you go again, TWISTING THE TRUTH, YOU REALLY REALLY ARE NAUGHTY..AREN'T YOU, Say yes, Because you know you are.
You have reduced the divine supernatual gift of prophecy to a natural thing..NAUGHTY.
If the catholic church is like the Biblical Church, The answear the questions in my first post.
AND DON'T REDUCE THEM TO A NATURAL THING.
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Since when is the Word of God a natural thing?
Some did speak in tongues during the early Mass, but that faded out of use as Christianity spread. There is no rule that says that tongues is permanent fixture during the service. There are Charismatic Catholics who still pray in tongues. And even worship in tongues. But, Paul said there were greater gifts and indicated that there was more to Christian worship than tongues.
And they did read the epistles and the other scriptures during their services. You were provided with the evidence already. If you do not consider the Bible to be a suitable witness, then that is your problem.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Since when is the Word of God a natural thing?
Some did speak in tongues during the early Mass, but that faded out of use as Christianity spread. There is no rule that says that tongues is permanent fixture during the service. There are Charismatic Catholics who still pray in tongues. And even worship in tongues. But, Paul said there were greater gifts and indicated that there was more to Christian worship than tongues.
And they did read the epistles and the other scriptures during their services. You were provided with the evidence already. If you do not consider the Bible to be a suitable witness, then that is your problem.
[1]The words that God gave to Prophets and Apostles as recorded in the Bible, was supernaturally, But to read them today doesn't take any supernatural effort.
And reading some Bible verses isn't prophecy.
[2]If a catholic spoke in [What you think was tongues], It problerbly was Latin, And if it was tongues, It wasn't from God.
[3]Tongues never faded as Christianity spread..STOP TELLING LIES,
What you mean is the catholic church is false and they don't move in the gifts of the Spirit.
[4]The Spirit of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets, And we are told to stir up the gift, Paul says we should use them whenever we gather together.
So when you said,
[Quote]
There is no rule that says that tongues is permanent fixture during the service.
[End quote].
You are wrong AGAIN.
[5]The catholic charismatics are of the devil, He has counterfited the gifts of God's Spirit.
God will never confirm the catholic church.
[6]We read the scriptures in all our Church services, But waht has that got to do with the gifts of the Spirit??.
So stop beating about the bush and answear the questions, Who uses what gift in you church??
Also, What gift do you have, If you believe you belong to the true Church, Then you must have one of the gifts.
And don't give any of that nonesense about reading the Bible being prophecy.
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by michael
God4me why are you trying to disconnect the Church in the bible with the Catholic Church?
The Catholic Church is the Church in the bible.
A sign of the true Church is that it was first. Everybody know Protestants came 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 67th, 890th, 1,200th, 34,000th etc, etc the whole point is that Protestantism came after the Catholic Church which was first & thus true.
The Catholic Church has history that goes back to the very first century. Protestants do not. Protestantism began with Martin Luther in the 16th century.
Protestantism even has to get the bible from the Catholic Church. No Protestant denomination can make the claim that it produced the bible. Not one. Not one.
I take it you are joking??..AREN'T YOU??.
If you have read the new testament Church, You'll see that the catholic church has no resembalnce to it.
If the catholic church is the Biblical one, Who in you church gives the message in tongues, Who interprets them?, Who has the gifts of healings?. Who does the miracles?.
Who has the revelation gifts?.
You are getting protestants mixed up with Christians, The Christian Church was here from the day of pentecost.
The protestants came when the reformers protested against the
un-Biblical catholic church.
If the protestants came after the catholic, And the catholics weren't here for the first 300-600 years, Who were God's people
from the start??.
The answear is, The TRUE Christian Church.
We have always been here.
Matt 28: 20. Eph 3: 21.
My Bible was translated from the original Greek by King James and his Scholars.
SO, If the catholic church is the true Church, Please answear the questions in my first post.
The Catholic Church does not have to prove itself to Protestants because it came first before Protestants. The first Church the Catholic Church is the true Church because it was first.
Protestants try to prove the Catholic Church away from being the first Church out of envy & pride.
Why are Protestants always telling the Catholic Church to read the new testament when it is the Catholic Church that wrote it & chose the books of the new testament?
NO Protestant denomination can even claim they wrote the new testament & chose the books that would belong in it NONE. Protestants did not even exist at that time.
Look God4me the bible is not a Protestant book because none of the Protestant denominations wrote it or chose any of the books in it.
God4me you mentioned King James. Protestants are always saying they follow no man but when it comes to King James it goes right of over Protestants heads that they are setting King James up on a infallible impeccable pedestal. Not only that Protestants threw out the 7 catholic books that were actually in the original King James bible.
God4me why are you not part of King James denomination?
My Church wrote the original Greek & monks from my Church handed them down from century to century all the way down to the time of King James a MAN Protestants next to worship. God4me where do you think King James got the Greek from?
Through bigotry prejudices false assumptions & false premises Protestants are protesting a catholic church made up by Protestantism that does not actually exist.
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quote:
Originally posted by michael
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by michael
God4me why are you trying to disconnect the Church in the bible with the Catholic Church?
The Catholic Church is the Church in the bible.
A sign of the true Church is that it was first. Everybody know Protestants came 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 67th, 890th, 1,200th, 34,000th etc, etc the whole point is that Protestantism came after the Catholic Church which was first & thus true.
The Catholic Church has history that goes back to the very first century. Protestants do not. Protestantism began with Martin Luther in the 16th century.
Protestantism even has to get the bible from the Catholic Church. No Protestant denomination can make the claim that it produced the bible. Not one. Not one.
I take it you are joking??..AREN'T YOU??.
If you have read the new testament Church, You'll see that the catholic church has no resembalnce to it.
If the catholic church is the Biblical one, Who in you church gives the message in tongues, Who interprets them?, Who has the gifts of healings?. Who does the miracles?.
Who has the revelation gifts?.
You are getting protestants mixed up with Christians, The Christian Church was here from the day of pentecost.
The protestants came when the reformers protested against the
un-Biblical catholic church.
If the protestants came after the catholic, And the catholics weren't here for the first 300-600 years, Who were God's people
from the start??.
The answear is, The TRUE Christian Church.
We have always been here.
Matt 28: 20. Eph 3: 21.
My Bible was translated from the original Greek by King James and his Scholars.
SO, If the catholic church is the true Church, Please answear the questions in my first post.
The Catholic Church does not have to prove itself to Protestants because it came first before Protestants. The first Church the Catholic Church is the true Church because it was first.
Protestants try to prove the Catholic Church away from being the first Church out of envy & pride.
Why are Protestants always telling the Catholic Church to read the new testament when it is the Catholic Church that wrote it & chose the books of the new testament?
NO Protestant denomination can even claim they wrote the new testament & chose the books that would belong in it NONE. Protestants did not even exist at that time.
Look God4me the bible is not a Protestant book because none of the Protestant denominations wrote it or chose any of the books in it.
God4me you mentioned King James. Protestants are always saying they follow no man but when it comes to King James it goes right of over Protestants heads that they are setting King James up on a infallible impeccable pedestal. Not only that Protestants threw out the 7 catholic books that were actually in the original King James bible.
God4me why are you not part of King James denomination?
My Church wrote the original Greek & monks from my Church handed them down from century to century all the way down to the time of King James a MAN Protestants next to worship. God4me where do you think King James got the Greek from?
[1]You are getting protestants mixed up with Christians, The Christian Church was here from the day of pentecost.
The protestants came when the reformers protested against the
un-Biblical catholic church.
[1]How can the catholic church be the first church when
[A]There not God's Church.
[B]There not Christians.
[C]They weren't formed by the devil until at least 300-600 years later.
[2]Christian Groups did write the Bible, STOP TELLING LIES,
You catholic think you gave us the Bible, But your not the ony people that translated the Scriptures.
Only we didn't add unsriptural books the the original number of Bible books.
The protestants did throw the 7 unsriptural books out of the Bible, Because thet were WRONGLY added by the catholics.
[3]I don't set King James up on a infallible impeccable pedestal.
I like it because it is translated from the original texts.
Where eles do you thing he got it from??.
[4]You monks might have wrote your bible, Maybe thats why you get you false teachings from.
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G4Me,
We hear your Gospel - and recognize it as various portions of the protestant founding fathers theologies - circa 1500's. Penacostals themselves admit that their theology is a form of Methodism.
Had you taken any classes in the Early Church Fathers, you'd have recognized Catholicism.
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by michael
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by michael
God4me why are you trying to disconnect the Church in the bible with the Catholic Church?
The Catholic Church is the Church in the bible.
A sign of the true Church is that it was first. Everybody know Protestants came 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 67th, 890th, 1,200th, 34,000th etc, etc the whole point is that Protestantism came after the Catholic Church which was first & thus true.
The Catholic Church has history that goes back to the very first century. Protestants do not. Protestantism began with Martin Luther in the 16th century.
Protestantism even has to get the bible from the Catholic Church. No Protestant denomination can make the claim that it produced the bible. Not one. Not one.
I take it you are joking??..AREN'T YOU??.
If you have read the new testament Church, You'll see that the catholic church has no resembalnce to it.
If the catholic church is the Biblical one, Who in you church gives the message in tongues, Who interprets them?, Who has the gifts of healings?. Who does the miracles?.
Who has the revelation gifts?.
You are getting protestants mixed up with Christians, The Christian Church was here from the day of pentecost.
The protestants came when the reformers protested against the
un-Biblical catholic church.
If the protestants came after the catholic, And the catholics weren't here for the first 300-600 years, Who were God's people
from the start??.
The answear is, The TRUE Christian Church.
We have always been here.
Matt 28: 20. Eph 3: 21.
My Bible was translated from the original Greek by King James and his Scholars.
SO, If the catholic church is the true Church, Please answear the questions in my first post.
The Catholic Church does not have to prove itself to Protestants because it came first before Protestants. The first Church the Catholic Church is the true Church because it was first.
Protestants try to prove the Catholic Church away from being the first Church out of envy & pride.
Why are Protestants always telling the Catholic Church to read the new testament when it is the Catholic Church that wrote it & chose the books of the new testament?
NO Protestant denomination can even claim they wrote the new testament & chose the books that would belong in it NONE. Protestants did not even exist at that time.
Look God4me the bible is not a Protestant book because none of the Protestant denominations wrote it or chose any of the books in it.
God4me you mentioned King James. Protestants are always saying they follow no man but when it comes to King James it goes right of over Protestants heads that they are setting King James up on a infallible impeccable pedestal. Not only that Protestants threw out the 7 catholic books that were actually in the original King James bible.
God4me why are you not part of King James denomination?
My Church wrote the original Greek & monks from my Church handed them down from century to century all the way down to the time of King James a MAN Protestants next to worship. God4me where do you think King James got the Greek from?
[1]You are getting protestants mixed up with Christians, The Christian Church was here from the day of pentecost.
The protestants came when the reformers protested against the
un-Biblical catholic church.
[1]How can the catholic church be the first church when
[A]There not God's Church.
[B]There not Christians.
[C]They weren't formed by the devil until at least 300-600 years later.
[2]Christian Groups did write the Bible, STOP TELLING LIES,
You catholic think you gave us the Bible, But your not the ony people that translated the Scriptures.
Only we didn't add unsriptural books the the original number of Bible books.
The protestants did throw the 7 unsriptural books out of the Bible, Because thet were WRONGLY added by the catholics.
[3]I don't set King James up on a infallible impeccable pedestal.
I like it because it is translated from the original texts.
Where eles do you thing he got it from??.
[4]You monks might have wrote your bible, Maybe thats why you get you false teachings from.
God4me I asked you where do you think King James got the original Greek from?
King James had to get the original Greek from somewhere where do you think King James got the original Greek from?
You do know the original King James bibles had calendar pages in them of daily liturgical readings & that the books that Protestants removed were used for liturgical readings.
This means the King James bible had the books that Protestants later removed & they were used.
God4me you are setting King James up on a infallible impeccable pedestal when you use his interpretation of the bible. You are putting your faith into him when you put your faith into his interpretation.
Through bigotry prejudices false assumptions & false premises Protestants are protesting a catholic church made up by Protestantism that does not actually exist.
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
G4Me,
We hear your Gospel - and recognize it as various portions of the protestant founding fathers theologies - circa 1500's. Penacostals themselves admit that their theology is a form of Methodism.
Had you taken any classes in the Early Church Fathers, you'd have recognized Catholicism.
Stop afoiding the question,
Who has what gifts in your church??
You claim to be the true church, So who has what gifts??
What gift do you have??.
I don't recognise the catholic church, Because God and the Bible doesn't.
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