Who are the Seven churches in Revelations?

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Absolutely. We take so much for granted today. St. Paul shared the guilt for the execution of St. Stephen, holding the coats of those who did the stoning. He knew all too well what was happening and what was yet to come as he fought for his own life in preparation for his own martyrdom.

During the first century all but one of the Apostles were martyred and so too were many of their followers.

It is sad too that many Protestants have never read the Deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament. The Hall of Faith discourse in Hebrews 11 includes the Maccabbean martyrs, but without the Book that explained exactly what happened and why the message in Hebrews is lost.

Every single example from the Hall of Faith in Hebrews 11 is found in the Catholic OT, but not all examples are found in the Protestant Ot. The author of Hebrews presumed a level of knowledge that most Protestants just do not have and cannot obtain from their shortened canon.

Today we have so many living in blind hope that the Rapture will snatch them up before their faith is truly tested by tribulation. But Christ prayed that we would not be taken up but instead be given the strength to endure.

Christians have faced persecution and martyrdom from the beginning, and this has persisted even through the many centuries since then. Today, Christians are the most persecuted group on the planet.

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Originally posted by baby3

Wow this is very exciting and I have never thought of it in this manner. Listen when I was going to the Baptist church they said that revelations has not happened yet and that all this would happen before the coming of Our Lord and until this all happens he will not return.I once believed in the Rapture until I was praying one day and reading the bible and saw that verse that contradicts them and what they believe All those who endure till the end will be saved!!!!I never herd of the Hall of Faith in Hebrews? No one has ever talked about this ever in any church I ever went to.The priest at the church I was going to said that the bible is not the full authority and that some of it has been added to and some subtracted that is why they believe that w

hat the Pope and bishops decide would be the right way to go because they have the authority and challenge.And the reason I like that is if they mess up and teach wrong they will be the ones who will answer to God not the sheep of the fold:)

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Originally posted by baby3

I did not think any one would be able to answer this because I can't remember learning this in the Catholic church after the mass. One nun did talk of dume and glum all the time and scared us all I was afraid of God more then liked him were you?Once I even hated him for letting babies die in Babylon I ran home and cried and cried and told God I hated him and even swore at him,at least I have confessed that it was wrong to you but never to a priest because I never thought of it.I wanted to know why he did this or allowed it to happen I told him if you are so powerful stop this and I stayed mad at him for a long time cause I did not understand like others.Now I want more then ever to learn as much as I can so I will know what to do in the end time.I do what I can for others but I do it because it feels good and I like to. At Christmas I never get gifts but I give gifts and this is my present it has been like this for as long as I can remember.I wish I could give everyone a home and food and clothing and good things.The very rich give only to get back for taxes it makes them look good to.I would love to see more diplomat go to countries that are third world and help someone in need. I would that all rich people would do the same and see how it feels to even be around those in need,what kind of feeling would they get upon looking into the child's empty eyes and swollen stomach.

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

I hope that the priest is referring to the process of canonization which did occur over time and not that the Bible is arbitary.

It is true that in the first century, all the books may have been written, but the canon was not set for either the OT or the NT.

There were many books that were loved and respected that were not included in the canon, but are considered good for reading - they were written after the time of Christ, such as the Shepherd of Hermas, and the Epistles of Clement of Rome. Seven of the NT books that we take for granted were not universally accepted in the early Church. They were not really rejected either, just didn't have the circulation to be used by all the Churches until later.

The canon was not set until the fourth century, and it was quite the process, with many different sets being used in the intervening period.

The Bible cannot be a sole authority because it was the Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, that decided what books actually belonged.

As for what to do in the end time - the same thing we should always be doing every day.

Jesus said that the Day (of His second coming) would come like a theif in the night. No one knows the day or the hour, so it is always good to be prepared - to be in a state of grace.

The Law of Love presides - Love God with all our heart and mind and strength, and to Love our neighbour as ourself.

Do not be disturbed by what is happening. God is in control. Just cling tight to Jesus when all Hell seems to be breaking loose and know that this was always going to happen before the end.

It is also possible that we won't see the end in our own lifetime. So it is best not to worry about the end, but instead concentrate on our own faith.

The Bible warns of false teachers who will seek to lure us astray. Do not be deceived.

And speaking of deception, not once in the Bible did Jesus ever condemn obedience to God or keeping His commandments or the existance of a religious heirarchy - He did condemn bad leaders and hypocrites, but that is not the same thing.

Jesus established a CHURCH, not a Bible. And His Church did have a structure with rules and doctrines and leaders, not an amorphous mass of believers generally believing sort of the same stuff.

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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

You don't have to know the history. You asked. I answered.

St. Bernadette flunked religion class and she became a great saint in the Catholic Church. It did not matter if she didn't know the history or all the theology of the Church. She had a simple faith, and lived it.

God chose her because she was willing to say "yes" even when everyone thought she was stupid and a fool.

Isn't the truth more important?

The Church is the Pillar and Ground of Truth. You either have to trust the Church to be the Truth, or study everything until you are sure that another one is.

You gave a great defence of the Catholic Church before. It was brilliant and so very true. Unless you have a very sound reason for believing that the Baptist Church IS the very Church that Christ founded and preserved for 2000 years, there is no reason to join with her.

And if you don't have the historical background to be familiar with what I wrote, it does not matter. But if you are looking to change churches, then don't you think you need a better reason than because history isn't your thing?

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Originally posted by baby3

Thank You Faith nice to know:)May be later on down the road things will be better.Ever get a feeling in your gut that you have to do smoething soon? My gut is hurting.

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Originally posted by God4me
[1]As I have said, catholics are evil, I could tell you some stories about what evil nuns have done.

Be this a warning to you G4Me, once again, that you slander us. You continue to commit mortal sin against your soul.

[2]It seems like you are trying to work for your salvation, No good works will make you righteous with God.
If you get saved, born again, [The Biblical way, Not the catholic way],And you live for God, You will go up in the pre-trib rapture.
catholics, other false religions along with the other sinners will go through the tribulation, Get killed, Go to hell, The raised up to be judged and cast into the lake of fire.

It is a horible future for the catholics..FACT

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[11] For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus. [12]

Now if any man build upon this foundation, gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble: [13]

Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. [14]

If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. [15] If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

[16] Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? [17] But if any man violate the temple of God, him shall God destroy. For the temple of God is holy, which you are. [18] Let no man deceive himself: if any man among you seem to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. [19] For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written: I will catch the wise in their own craftiness. [20] And again: The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

[21] Let no man therefore glory in men. [22] For all things are yours, whether it be Paul, or Apollo, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; for all are yours; [23] And you are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

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[12] Upon this foundation:

The foundation is Christ and his doctrine: or the true faith in him, working through charity.

The building upon this foundation gold, silver, and precious stones, signifies the more perfect preaching and practice of the gospel; the wood, hay, and stubble, such preaching as that of the Corinthian teachers (who affected the pomp of words and human eloquence) and such practice as is mixed with much imperfection, and many lesser sins.

Now the day of the Lord, and his fiery trial, (in the particular judgment immediately after death,) shall make manifest of what sort every man's work has been: of which, during this life, it is hard to make a judgment.

For then the fire of God's judgment shall try every man's work.

And they, whose works, like wood, hay, and stubble, cannot abide the fire, shall suffer loss; these works being found to be of no value; yet they themselves, having built upon the right foundation, (by living and dying in the true faith and in the state of grace, though with some imperfection,) shall be saved yet so as by fire; being liable to this punishment, by reason of the wood, hay, and stubble, which was mixed with their building.

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G4Me quote: ...catholics, other false religions along with the other sinners will go through the tribulation, Get killed, Go to hell, The raised up to be judged and cast into the lake of fire.

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Catechism of the Catholic Church:

679

Christ is Lord of eternal life.

Full right to pass definitive judgment on the works and hearts of men belongs to him as redeemer of the world.

He "acquired" this right by his cross.

The Father has given "all judgment to the Son".587

Yet the Son did not come to judge, but to save and to give the life he has in himself.588

By rejecting grace in this life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one's works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity by rejecting the Spirit of love.589

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Pre-tribulation rapture theology was developed in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren,[9] and popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.[10]

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Originally posted by bwellmysoul

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Pre-tribulation rapture theology was developed in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren,[9] and popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.[10]

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G4Me,

When will your man-made-doctrine finger learn to point back at you?

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