The cause of sin is a Roman Catholic MYSTERY
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Pope Benedict XVI told Irish Catholics on Sunday 18/06/12 it is a mystery why priests and other church officials abused children entrusted in their care. Catholic theology teaches that the pope as a bishop is able to interpret what God is saying. However in this case he received no insight from above, as now he admits that he doesn’t know the cause of sin.
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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Peter would not have been able to answer the question either. It is not as simple as just handing out a bumpersticker verse out of the Bible.
Catholic Theology does not say that the Pope is an Old Testament style prophet. He can interpret Scripture and infallibly proclaim on matters of faith and morals - i.e. pedophilia is wrong.
The source of this sin does not come from God. No sin comes from God. The mystery is this particular sin and who it affected, not sin in general.
It was known from the beginning that Satan would seek to enter the Church. The only thing that is certain that he will not succeed in overcoming the Church.
There were a series of events in the twentieth century that heralded a change in the world. The change infiltrated everywhere and no group made it through unscathed.
That this happened in the Catholic Church is shocking. And the interesting thing is that the whole world is shocked. No one is as shocked that this same problem is occurring everywhere else. No one is nearly as shocked when this happens in a Protestant church, or in the Boy Scouts, or in sports teams. None of these other groups were instituted by Christ.
But the whole world looks at the Catholic Church as if no human failing could ever appear in its midst. Even those who are not Catholic hold up the Catholic Church to a much higher standard than they would their own church or group. Instinctively, even atheists knows that the Catholic Church is more than a human institution and are shocked with something like this happens.
And well they should be shocked. But it isn't like it couldn't happen. From the beginning of the Church there have been human elements within the Church. The Church is founded by Christ and headed by Christ, but from the Pope on down, we are all human beings.
What went wrong? Human beings tried to modernize the Church. Some of the seminaries opened their doors to candidates who were not suitable in the interests of introducing change. That was not from the top. That was not under the instruction of the Pope or the Holy See (Vatican), but it did happen.
What went right? In spite of something utterly horrific that should never have happened, the efforts to change the course of the Church failed. Unlike many denominations, instead of allowing a practicing homosexual clergy and blessing gay marriages and welcoming the sin along with the sinner, the Church reiterated the ban on homosexuals from even entering the priesthood, refused to bless gay marriages, and upheld the Biblical prohibition against homosexual practice.
Pedophilia happened in the Church, just as it has happened everywhere else, but it was never indoctrinated. It was never permissable.
Sin is becoming so wide spread that it is getting harder and harder to even recognize.
Humanae Vitae prophetically warned about what would happen if the Pill became widely accepted, and at the time the Pope was accused of fear mongering. What he wrote was considered too horrific to contemplate and utterly impossible.
He was 100% correct on every point. Every single prophecy was fulfilled one by one.
40 years later, what was too horrible to contemplate and dismissed as fear mongering is part of our everyday life. And today, instead of panicking, the current generation just says "so what?".
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Why has this specific sin of paedophilia a different cause than other sin? Does the pope know the cause of general sin and what might that be?
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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- -1212reputation
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quote:
Originally posted by Conqueror
Pope Benedict XVI told Irish Catholics on Sunday 18/06/12 it is a mystery why priests and other church officials abused children entrusted in their care. Catholic theology teaches that the pope as a bishop is able to interpret what God is saying. However in this case he received no insight from above, as now he admits that he doesn’t know the cause of sin.
[1]The pope isn't a Bishop, A Biblical Bishop is the Pastor of the local Church and the Pope doesn't Pastor a local Church.
[2]The pope interprets what the devil tells him, Not what God says.
[3]If the pope knew the Bible [Which he doesn't], he would know why priests sin.
The pope and other catholic officials spent so much time on their own councils and dogmas that they don't accept or believe the Bible.
Whereas Christians go by what the Bible says.
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Peter would not have been able to answer the question either. It is not as simple as just handing out a bumpersticker verse out of the Bible.
Catholic Theology does not say that the Pope is an Old Testament style prophet. He can interpret Scripture and infallibly proclaim on matters of faith and morals - i.e. pedophilia is wrong.
The source of this sin does not come from God. No sin comes from God. The mystery is this particular sin and who it affected, not sin in general.
It was known from the beginning that Satan would seek to enter the Church. The only thing that is certain that he will not succeed in overcoming the Church.
There were a series of events in the twentieth century that heralded a change in the world. The change infiltrated everywhere and no group made it through unscathed.
That this happened in the Catholic Church is shocking. And the interesting thing is that the whole world is shocked. No one is as shocked that this same problem is occurring everywhere else. No one is nearly as shocked when this happens in a Protestant church, or in the Boy Scouts, or in sports teams. None of these other groups were instituted by Christ.
But the whole world looks at the Catholic Church as if no human failing could ever appear in its midst. Even those who are not Catholic hold up the Catholic Church to a much higher standard than they would their own church or group. Instinctively, even atheists knows that the Catholic Church is more than a human institution and are shocked with something like this happens.
And well they should be shocked. But it isn't like it couldn't happen. From the beginning of the Church there have been human elements within the Church. The Church is founded by Christ and headed by Christ, but from the Pope on down, we are all human beings.
What went wrong? Human beings tried to modernize the Church. Some of the seminaries opened their doors to candidates who were not suitable in the interests of introducing change. That was not from the top. That was not under the instruction of the Pope or the Holy See (Vatican), but it did happen.
What went right? In spite of something utterly horrific that should never have happened, the efforts to change the course of the Church failed. Unlike many denominations, instead of allowing a practicing homosexual clergy and blessing gay marriages and welcoming the sin along with the sinner, the Church reiterated the ban on homosexuals from even entering the priesthood, refused to bless gay marriages, and upheld the Biblical prohibition against homosexual practice.
Pedophilia happened in the Church, just as it has happened everywhere else, but it was never indoctrinated. It was never permissable.
Sin is becoming so wide spread that it is getting harder and harder to even recognize.
Humanae Vitae prophetically warned about what would happen if the Pill became widely accepted, and at the time the Pope was accused of fear mongering. What he wrote was considered too horrific to contemplate and utterly impossible.
He was 100% correct on every point. Every single prophecy was fulfilled one by one.
40 years later, what was too horrible to contemplate and dismissed as fear mongering is part of our everyday life. And today, instead of panicking, the current generation just says "so what?".
You said,
[Quote]
But the whole world looks at the Catholic Church as if no human failing could ever appear in its midst. Even those who are not Catholic hold up the Catholic Church to a much higher standard than they would their own church or group. Instinctively, even atheists knows that the Catholic Church is more than a human institution and are shocked with something like this happens.
[End quote].
That is a lie from the devil, The whole world knows that the catholic church is a devil inspired man made false evil religion.
The only people who are deluded and deceived about the catholics, Is the catholics themselves, DREAM ON DREAMER.
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Are you now saying that we should seek the opinions of atheists and others who hold the church in high regard? I was talking about the comments of the pope, who is mystified why a regular sacrament taker cannot over come sin.
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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Location: Canada
No. The Pope was not commenting on sin in general being a mystery, but that this particular sin was affecting the presbyters and bishops of Christ's Church.
A regular sacrament taker can overcome sin if they are properly disposed. These priests entered the priesthood under false pretenses, and those who let them in were not seeking to do the will of God but their own will. This is not such a mystery to me, but then I am a bit jaded after 30 years of this. But it has to be distressing to a Pope to know that so many safeguards were sabotaged from within.
I can see this being a bit much for the Pope to see such a horrific offence against the Bride of Christ through her most vulnerable members. Sin happens inside and outside the Church, but this particular sin is so very grave and so very evil it goes beyond all others.
Evil exists. That is why I am a Catholic.
If you don't think it is a mystery that clergy who serve God should fall to such depths, perhaps you have an expanation?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Catholic theology teaches that the pope as a bishop is able to interpret what God is saying.
Since when?
The Catholic Church uses Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium to determine faith and morals into each generation. And in that process, the Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit.
"Interpret what God is saying" is so overly dramatic. The way that you write that, it's as if you think the Holy Spirit speaks in words to the Pope and the Pope takes dictation.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says this about sin:
quote:
Sin(s)
of the angels, 392-93
in the Church, 827
concupiscence leads us into sin, 978
definition of, 1849-50
as the gravest evil, 1488
love is stronger than, 2844
man's strong bond to God and the knowledge of, 286-88
original (see Original sin)
reality of, 385-87
responsibility of one who cooperates in the sins of others, 1868
root of, 1853
Satan as the cause of, 2852
ways to uproot, 943
See also Original sin
capital sins
as generators of other sins, 1866
"Sins which cry to heaven," 1867
consequences of sin
loss of
communion with God, 761, 1472
eternal life, 1472
man's likeness to God, 705
murder of the Son of God, 312
punishments of, 1472-73
struggle between the spirit and the flesh, 2516
unhealthy attachment to creatures, 1472
vice and perverse inclinations, 1426, 1865
weakened life of the Christian, 1420
weakened life of the sinner, 1459
distinguishing sins
according to gravity, 1854
by their objects, 1853
interpretations of sin
death entered the history of humanity, 400, 1006, 1008
detrimental to human communion, 761, 953
man abuses his God-given freedom, 1739
moral evil entered the world, 311, 1869
offense against God, 431, 1850
personal act, 1868
rejection of God, 398
schisms, heresies, apostasies, 817
"Social sin," 1869
threats to Church unity and communion, 814, 1440
work of the flesh, 1852
liberation from sin
Baptism frees from, 977-78, 985, 1213, 1237, 1263-64
Christ
brings about the forgiveness of, 987, 1741
"expiation for our sins," 457, 604
the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world," 523, 536, 608
made satisfaction to the Father for our, 615, 1708
Christ's offering for liberation from the sins of man, 606-18
divine law, a help to those who have been wounded by, 1949
freeing of man from, 211, 549, 1989-90, 1999, 2057, 2097
God did not abandon man to the power of death, 410-11, 1609
God "made him to be sin for us," 602-03
interior penance as a way to overcome, 1431
only God can forgive, 270, 277, 430-31, 1441
prayer lest we take the way that leads to, 2846
violence and the many forms of sin manifested in Christ's passion, 1851
ways to obtain the forgiveness of, 1434-39
See also Penance and Reconciliation
mortal sins
conditions of complete consent, 1859
grave matter, 1858
full knowledge, 1859
consequences of, 1855, 1861
death in, 1033, 1035
distinction between mortal and venial, 1854
eternal punishments reserved for the one who dies in, 1033
forgiveness of mortal sins in perfect contrition, 1452, 1856
"He who does not love remains in death," 1033
imputability of the offense, 1860
sacramental forgiveness of sins
anointing of the sick and, 1520
authority and power to bind and loose sins, 553, 976, 1441-45, 1461
confessing sins according to the precept of the Church, 2042
confession and absolution, 1424
as the effect of justification, 2018
love of God as the cause for, 734
purification from the punishments for sins, 1475
and reconciliation with the Church, 1443
sacraments of, 1421, 1486, 1520
See also Penance and Reconciliation
various sins
against faith, 2088-89
against hope, 2091
anger, 2302
blasphemy, 2148
blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, 1864
envy, 2539
failure to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, 2181
haired, 2303
homicide, 2268
lying, 2484
malice, 1860
sacrilege, 2120
sexual acts outside of marriage, 2390
venial sins
conditions of matter, knowledge, and consent, 1862
confession of, 1458
consequences of, 1863
ways of sinning
against God's love, 2094
of thought, word, deed, and omission, 1853
Sinner(s)
to acknowledge oneself as a, 208, 827, 1697, 2677, 2839
all men "were made sinners," 402
effects of the sacrament of Penance upon, 1423, 1468-70
every sinner as the author of Christ's passion, 598
God's mercy towards, 1465, 1846
Jesus invites, 545, 588
Jesus' mercy towards, 589, 1443
and the just in the Church, 827
justification of, 1994
Last Judgment of, 1038
penance must be done by, 1459
power to forgive, 979, 1444
purification of, 1475
ways of reconciliation of, 1449
Slander. See Calumny
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/index/s.htm
Edited by bwellmysoul on 06/19/2012 09:02:16
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Because the Catholic Church is unified, universal and one, it can enact one set of standards to combat future acts of violence against Her children.
Unfortuneately, that is not true of the various protestant denominations.
In many denominations, they have long since rejected central control and it is through this unrestrained pathway that Evil can and will entrench.
There is more sexual violence against children in the various protestantisms than in Catholicism. How unfortuneate that that fact is never covered in the national news. It remains hidden and covered up in the various protestantisms.
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God4me tells us that the bishop of Rome isn't a bishop. I guess that that is just another uninformed opinion.
bwellmysoul claims that the church is unified. The pope is mystified why the sacraments didn't work for those set apart as priests and Catholics claim that the sacraments are working, when they aren't. So much for that unity!
Faith_at_Large states that these priests entered the priesthood under false pretences and doesn't think it is a mystery that clergy who serve God should fall to such depths, perhaps you have an explanation?
The explanation is rather simple; the pope is correct that the sacraments aren't working, but he is mystified, as he doesn't know the gospel. Unless you renounce papal dependence and rely totally on Jesus you will never know or be set free.
Abuse is warmly welcomed as it only confirms that Catholics aren't born-again Christians.
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
Edited by Conqueror on 06/19/2012 16:23:41
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This is a typical example of "calling the kettle black". According to your logic, Protestants are not born again Christians either. The abuse of some does not condemn all, but if it did, the statistics show that more sexual abuse goes on in non-Catholic sects.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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The RCC claims to be the only and true church, so lets deal with the fact that many of those who are supposed to lead God's people cannot overcome their sin. It seems that Jesus died for nothing and didn't die for sin. The pope already has discerned that the Eucharist didn't work for paedophiles. In other words your God failed those priests!
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
There is unity in the Church. It a mystery how this happened in the Church. I gave an explanation of something that went wrong and likely contributed, but it does not solve the mystery completely.
And did the Pope say that the sacraments were not working, or is this your interpretation of what happened to the priests who fell?
The Pope is not infallible in everything he says. He wants to believe that every priest is doing what he ought. I say that if all the priests were doing what they ought, this should not have happened. But it did. And it is a mystery that this should have reached the point that it did because this problem affects more than just the fallen priests.
I gave you a perfect example of the Prophetic nature of the Church.
Did your church see that coming? And if so, what did your church do about it?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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The Church of Christ, the Baptist Church, Pentecostal, etc. all claim to be the one true, church... so why not deal with the fact that many of those within these sects who are supposed to lead God's people can't overcome their sin? Why single out the RCC? Just because their numbers are higher? Or because they have a single pastor above the others? That's not fair.
It's not a Catholic thing. It's a fallen human nature thing.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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The pope did say that the sacraments weren't working for those paedophile priests. Do you think that the Eucharist, which you say is Jesus, did its job saving those priests?
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by Conqueror
The RCC claims to be the only and true church, so lets deal with the fact that many of those who are supposed to lead God's people cannot overcome their sin. It seems that Jesus died for nothing and didn't die for sin. The pope already has discerned that the Eucharist didn't work for paedophiles. In other words your God failed those priests!
The majority of Catholic priests did not fall in to sin. Only a tiny minority did, less than in the Protestant churches, and less than in the Public domain, even at its worst.
God didn't fail those priests. Paul said that to eat or drink unworthily was to eat and drink a judgment upon onself.
I admit that I am a little surprised that the Pope would even endorse their reception of the Eucharist under those circumstances - it was my understanding that he was not accepting of using the Eucharist in that way. But then I didn't read what the Pope said to the Irish Catholics, I will have to look it up and see exactly what he said.
Since you said "your God", I assume that you are not a Christian. Do you believe in God?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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