Is it Dangerous to suffer from lack of sin?
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 Greetings, There are those who say they sin not and are saved by faith and not by any works. I am a firm believer that both are necessary to be a good steward to lead the sheep to the fold.Catholics are accused of being wicked sinners who know not any better. OK,~ Then those who claim they are saved by grace and have not to do any works are building up what in heaven? Also are they more likely to sin as they feel they have no one to answer to because they are all ready in the heavens and sitting on the thrown with the Lord? My, is not the evil one, the one who claims this? Did not Jesus say to take the back seat, as it is safer and better to be humble then pompous? It is very dangerous to be so perfect before the Lord has made us perfect and to be so sure you are his chosen one, instead of having the fear of hells fire and loosing your salvation to the evil one.Play with fire you'll get burned scare crow,be ye doers of the word not Sayers,if we all felt like this where would he poor get their bread and clothes and water from? The wicked RICH??? NADA! The filthy rich are your enemies not people that pray for others and love others,get a handle on life and save those who are falling and don't listen to lies of the past fathers that wanted to be wayward and establish their own laws and churches to better themselves not the poor and needy.Do good, seek peace and pursue it!
baby3
Edited by baby3 on 06/27/2012 17:57:57
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Thanks to Faith I was able to find this article read it and weep!
Lollardy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lollardy
Paste over it and read I didn't as a Protestant know this part of the faith! And do the scholars of the churches know this part and keep it from their followers who have not the intellect as they?
baby3
Edited by baby3 on 06/27/2012 18:13:50
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A very charitable article given that the Lollards were heretics. And it would have been nice if it had shared more of their beliefs, even though they were somewhat varied.
They were anti-clerical, and anti-authority, which is why Wycliffe edited his Bible to change the meaning of what was written to promote this heretical sect. He took advantage of the uneducated who might not have been able to read better translations for themselves. Wycliff was not the first to translate the Bible into English either, but this article makes it seem like he was.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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The anti-Trinitarian aspect has been popping up in recent years. I wonder if the Oneness Pentecostals drew any influences from the Lollards.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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exactly what I was thinking that the Pentecostals started back then with Wyclef and all the babbling that God sent them all away with when they worshiped babel tower singing in tongues etc.It's all beginning to add up now.They were freaks and babblers of which God sent them on their way for this
baby3
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The Oneness Pentecostals might lay claim to them, but I don't know that the Lollards spoke in tongues, but I could be wrong.
The Charismatic gifts have been present in the Catholic Church from the beginning, but the Reformation left the offshoot churches without the gifts to the point where for the next few centuries the majority if not all the Protestants believed that the gifts died out during the Apostolic Age.
The Charismatic gifts were "rediscovered" within Protestantism in the very early 20th century (some say late 19th century). Many things get "redecovered", but the knowledge never went away in the original Church. Unfortunately, because the fringe churches within Protestantism did not have the historical framework to understand the charisms, they did their best to create a reasonable fascimile.
One of the biggest problems with the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement is that they probably had great intentions, they made demands on the gifts that were never meant to be. And as a result, some pretty scary manifestations resulted - some of the great "Outpourings" including not only "unknown" tongues that sounded like babbling, they also sounded like various animals, and all sorts of strange things happened.
The so-called "Toronto Blessing" was an outpouring that manifested like a mass demonic possession with all its members as willing volunteers.
The Lakeland Revival outpouring in the US led by Todd Bentley was another one that freaked me out. He and others claimed that there were devils dancing in the aisles with angels at one of their big events. The claim was that the devils were being cast out, but the description was more like they were having a big party, again with willing volunteers for demonic possession.
The Charismatic gifts are real, but one cannot put demands on the Holy Spirit as to which gift we get. When that happens, the devil is all too willing to oblige.
And with the very powerful peer pressure to be "born again the Bible way" with that full speaking in tongues experience, it is not surprising that many were open to any solution, whether faking it or accepting any spirit that answered.
I think that this may be why there are so many bitter Pentecostals. I have not met many that were happy or charitable. Lots of boasting of gifts such as tongues and healing (followed by exposes or excuses as to why they didn't last), etc., but few if any of the fruits of the Spirit.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by baby3
Greetings, There are those who say they sin not and are saved by faith and not by any works. I am a firm believer that both are necessary to be a good steward to lead the sheep to the fold.Catholics are accused of being wicked sinners who know not any better. OK,~ Then those who claim they are saved by grace and have not to do any works are building up what in heaven? Also are they more likely to sin as they feel they have no one to answer to because they are all ready in the heavens and sitting on the thrown with the Lord? My, is not the evil one, the one who claims this? Did not Jesus say to take the back seat, as it is safer and better to be humble then pompous? It is very dangerous to be so perfect before the Lord has made us perfect and to be so sure you are his chosen one, instead of having the fear of hells fire and loosing your salvation to the evil one.Play with fire you'll get burned scare crow,be ye doers of the word not Sayers,if we all felt like this where would he poor get their bread and clothes and water from? The wicked RICH??? NADA! The filthy rich are your enemies not people that pray for others and love others,get a handle on life and save those who are falling and don't listen to lies of the past fathers that wanted to be wayward and establish their own laws and churches to better themselves not the poor and needy.Do good, seek peace and pursue it!
What you mean is, You don't believe the Bible.
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God4Me,
What you mean is...you don't believe the Bible.
You've said your Bible has "mistranslations" and that your Pentecostal forefathers didn't get it right.
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
God4Me,
What you mean is...you don't believe the Bible.
You've said your Bible has "mistranslations" and that your Pentecostal forefathers didn't get it right.
I have the Hebrew and Greek Bible, So I know what the Bible originally says.
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No. You may have a Bible in Hebrew and Greek, or some other two languages that you don't understand. But you do not know what it originally said as you do not have a very good grasp of either Hebrew or Greek, and sometimes I have my doubts about your ability to grasp English.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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G4, if you are going to be on this forum, could you at least try to contibute something to conversation other than insults?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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A neighbor of mine is a Mexican American Oneness Pentecostal (The Light of the World Church) with roots in Mexico's Oneness movement.
Difficult to understand how someone can read Scripture and come away with a belief in Oneness.
Are their Baptisms recognized in the Church?
quote:
Eusebio Joaquín González established the organization, formally known as ... The Light of the World, in Monterey, Mexico, on April 6, 1926.
Called into the service of God through a vision, González changed his name to Aaron and began his service as a minister.
Known as the Prophet Aaron to congregants, González spread Oneness Pentecostalism across Mexico.
The Oneness wing of Pentecostalism rejects the eternal divinity of Jesus, instead believing that it was his baptism that made him the Christ and therefore divine.2
La Luz del Mundo ministers, in the tradition of Oneness beliefs, baptize solely in the name of Jesus Christ instead of the Trinity:
God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In the 1950s, González established the Hermosa Provincia, or Beautiful Province, in Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico, which remains the headquarters for La Luz del Mundo.
González held the positions of both “Apostle” and “international
President of the Luz del Mundo church” until his death in 1964.
During his tenure, the Prophet Aaron oversaw the expansion of the church throughout Latin America and the world.
Oddly, Aaron opted to move north into the United States with his missionary work before continuing south into Central America.
Because of a Pentecostal awakening in both the United States and Latin America, the denomination grew rapidly. With over one million members in Mexico, La Luz del Mundo is currently the second largest
denomination in the country, eclipsed only by the Catholic Church.
Upon his father Eusebio’s death, Samuel Joaquín Flores became the leader of the denomination, expanding the ....
Edited by bwellmysoul on 06/28/2012 11:50:27
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"... Bishop Cuthbert of London called Lutheranism the "foster-child" of the Wycliffite heresy."
Interesting.
I've heard the name Wycliff on
"The Journey Home" but didn't realize that he lived prior to Luther.
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The Oneness Pentecostals, no, I don't believe that their baptisms would be accepted as their view of the Godhead is different from mainstream Christianity. The baptisms of the JWs and Mormons are not recognized for this reason, even if the theology is different.
And, yes Wycliff predates the reformation, but he and the Lollards were precursers to the Reformation. There were a few others as well.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
Just looked it up. Wycliff lived until around the late 1300s in England. Born 1320 – died December 31, 1384)
I was watching a program on the Plague (and it's impact on HIV).
quote:
The Black Death, a bubonic plague pandemic which reached Europe in 1347 spread to England in 1348, and killed between a third and more than half of the nation's inhabitants. The Black Death was the first and most severe manifestation of the Second Pandemic, caused by the Yersinia pestis bacteria.
quote:
The plague reached London in the autumn of 1348, and by the next summer it had covered the entire country. By December 1349 the outbreak was mostly over.
Though accurate estimates of mortality are difficult to make, the recent trend has been to adjust the estimates upwards.
This is the result of recent scholarship's focus on the peasant society – which made up around 90% of the population – rather than the greater landowners and the clergy.
While it was previously assumed that one third or less of the population died, a number of around half is generally accepted, though some have suggested an even higher mortality.
From a secondary source:
quote:
The Black Death of 1348 to 1350
In Medieval England, the Black Death was to kill 1.5 million people out of an estimated total of 4 million people between 1348 and 1350.
No medical knowledge existed in Medieval England to cope with the disease.
After 1350, it was to strike England another six times by the end of the century. Understandably, peasants were terrified at the news that the Black Death might be approaching their village or town.
Was wondering how much negative / positive influences viral plagues have on faith and religion in a culture.
quote:
In 1361–62 the plague returned to England, this time causing the death of around 20% of the population.
After this the plague continued to return intermittently throughout the 14th and 15th centuries, in local or national outbreaks. From this point on its impact became less severe, much due to conscious government efforts.
One of the last outbreaks of the plague in England was the Great Plague of London in 1665-66.
Present day Idaho, in total, has 1.5 million people inside its borders. And, in comparison, all of those people would have been lost in the span of 2 to 2.5 years.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 06/28/2012 14:50:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
G4, if you are going to be on this forum, could you at least try to contibute something to conversation other than insults?
I have contributed the truth, STOP TELLING LIES you naughty woman
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