research and true study of Romans 6!
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Hello Faith and whosoever! let continue the study and truth of Roman 6 on this thread!  Now can we continue in Roman 6? Ro:6:5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Notice how this is a done deal by reading the words ( have been), and a perfect seed has been planted, and that seed is just like the seed of Our perfect Saviour also in His death we have also died, so evenagliet died year ago so the new Evangelist which is here is the new born again perfect, justified Evangelist which all brand new Holy desires, and will towards all things of God! So my likeness is Just like Jesus in this earth, because I got up or came back again a new evangelist, in a zoe life and a SOZO life in Christ! So do you see the same as me only this time putting your name in where my name is posted?ß one love! I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/29/2012 07:22:32
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It's a "done deal" for Christ, it isn't a "done deal" for humanity.
Christ said, "Pick up YOUR cross, and follow Me."
He did His work and it's our time - while on Earth - to do ours. To mature into adult Christian witnesses for Christ.
Christ didn't say, "I died so that you all can lay back and sin away and when you die, I'll be there to look the other way concerning you in your sins."
He said, "Be Holy, as My Father in heaven is Holy."
"Be holy" and "Do the Commandments". He did not say, "I have zapped you and made you holy and ...forget about those Commandments - they're just 10 Suggestions now."
quote:
Ro:6:5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
You take this sentence as a definitive statement concerning salvation without assimilating the remainder of Sacred Scripture or the Traditions of the Early Apostolic Church.
I know how important it is for you to believe that the Reformation fathers weren't heretics.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 07/06/2012 13:36:08
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PS. Cracks me up...your title for this thread. The "true" study ....
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In addition...have you found as answer for why the Resurrected Christ would delegate His authority to "forgive sin or hold it bound" to His Apostles - when as you preach He forgave humanity all their sins in one big bang on the cross - past, present and future?
Another of your "done deals" that is not as "done" as you wish to believe.
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No. Evangelist. There is no "done deal" indicated in that verse, and you are ignoring the rest of what was written - in particular:
Romans 6 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
We have been raised like Christ. We have been freed from the slavery of sin, but if you allow it to reign in you again, then you have returned to that slavery.
We serve whom we obey. Sin or Christ.
It would be foolish to listen to one line of what Paul says and then ignore the rest of what he has to say.
We are instructed to avoid sinning with our body, not because we are under the law but BECAUSE we are under GRACE. Grace gives us this ability and the more you exercise GRACE, the easier it becomes. If we don't exercise what God has freely given to us, it does not help us.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 07/06/2012 15:19:36
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Note especially verse 17, they were servants of sin but no longer - why? Not simply because they believed but because they obeyed.
Obeyed from the heart. We serve whom we obey. Stumbling is not going to damn us, but repentance is necessary because otherwise we will be caught up in the mire from which we were freed.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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One thing that never seems to change. When Evan says research or truth, you can be sure that he hasn't done the research and isn't grasping the truth.. Like so many others brought up in post reformation sectarian religious groups he has a very poor grasp of the whole gospel, and puts stock in too many opposing man made doctrines.
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
It's a "done deal" for Christ, it isn't a "done deal" for humanity.
Christ said, "Pick up YOUR cross, and follow Me."
He did His work and it's our time - while on Earth - to do ours. To mature into adult Christian witnesses for Christ.
Christ didn't say, "I died so that you all can lay back and sin away and when you die, I'll be there to look the other way concerning you in your sins."
He said, "Be Holy, as My Father in heaven is Holy."
"Be holy" and "Do the Commandments". He did not say, "I have zapped you and made you holy and ...forget about those Commandments - they're just 10 Suggestions now."
quote:
Ro:6:5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
You take this sentence as a definitive statement concerning salvation without assimilating the remainder of Sacred Scripture or the Traditions of the Early Apostolic Church.
I know how important it is for you to believe that the Reformation fathers weren't heretics.
you are aq free moral agent so go ahead and go all you can do and try t obey every singe (D's) you can perform!
Jesus yoke is easy and Hus burden is light!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
PS. Cracks me up...your title for this thread. The "true" study ....
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Evangelist, we don't have to try to obey every single law. We are under the Law of Love. Upon this Law, the two GREAT Commandments, hangs the whole of the Law.
I will ask you again as I asked you once before. If you steal from your neighbour, have you truly loved him as you love yourself? Have you truly obeyed the Law of Love?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Christ's yoke is easy and His burden light, but you still have to put it on and carry it.
By yourself it would be impossible, but with Christ, all things are possible. Grace can accomplish great things if you let it. Grace has already helped you a great deal but you don't seem to see it. If you cooperated, Grace could help you so much more.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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This is an interesting thing.. that so many modern sects seem intent on proving that everyone else but them is trying to obey the law. Evan does this all the time but in the process is only creating a law of his own which he is basing his salvation upon. This has been commented on before with the antinomians and other modern sects who base their theology on a rule of osas and such. The truth, as evan wants to learn is that, Christ himself tells us to obey, and follow, and the apostles all give rules to live by.. the book of James is loaded with imperative commands,, and Paul is no different. The christian faith isn't to be confused with those vain philosophies of the greeks like hedonism or stoicism, which is really where people like Evan miss out. The church has rather an honest approach to both grace and works... and this is what is classically understood as faith. It is the belief in a God who has made the way for us to follow, who has made our burden light but not non-existent. Even Paul talks about running the race and doing all he can, even filling what was lacking in Christs afflictions.
Without proper understanding of the gospel, the bible and the faith, people like Evan are left only to an extremely lopsided gospel and as a result create a legalism by which they judge everyone else to be 'missing out'. They then go to every extreme to try and prove how they are missing out only to really prove themselves as the paranoid legalist who has become a hypocrite unto himself. Just as the law of anarchy bends around and debunks itself, for if there are no rules then there can be no 'rule' that there are no rules, so Evan in his accusation of works and law only creates a work and law to follow. it is ouroborous the worm that eats it's own tail..
Now it is true that some do go well beyone the balance of the church to the other side where they truly do believe in salvation by works.. some of the early sects like ebionites believed this. Pelagian believed this and called it "faith alone" because he had a solid idea of what faith alone really meant. It meant not a reliance on grace but rather on ones own abilitiy to believe and as such severed himslef from grace and acted according to a belief that by faith his works would save him. The catholic church stood against both heresies and offered as it still does today a right and true understanding of the concept of faith to a christian. It is our response to grace, without which our response would mean nothing. Our belief in baptism isn't a belief in getting wet, only a legalist would think such a thing. Rather it is a response to grace which Christ has clearly prepared for us. We have only to accept it and enter the water. All that the sacrament offers is there only because of Christ by his grace, and we accept this grace by the simple and real act of being baptized. There is no legalism in such an act, any more than there would be legalism in returning a kiss to my wife. There is legalism if one doesn't believe in the sacrament.. after all if there is no grace in such an act then it is really just a dead work of the flesh... this should cause anyone to wonder at the protestant and evangelical claim of faith alone.. If they don't believe in such works why do they do them anyway, and how can they justify the fact that such works are prescribed by Christ himself in the bible?
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, we don't have to try to obey every single law. We are under the Law of Love. Upon this Law, the two GREAT Commandments, hangs the whole of the Law.
I will ask you again as I asked you once before. If you steal from your neighbour, have you truly loved him as you love yourself? Have you truly obeyed the Law of Love?
NO, in man eyes, but in God eyes, he never seen you do any stealing period!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Note especially verse 17, they were servants of sin but no longer - why? Not simply because they believed but because they obeyed.
Obeyed from the heart. We serve whom we obey. Stumbling is not going to damn us, but repentance is necessary because otherwise we will be caught up in the mire from which we were freed.
A deep study can't be done if you are going to jump ahead, let take this line apon line and precept upon precepts ok?
We will get to the other verses soon or latter!
So do you agree with me in verse 5 of romans 6 or not?ß
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/08/2012 10:56:16
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
One thing that never seems to change. When Evan says research or truth, you can be sure that he hasn't done the research and isn't grasping the truth.. Like so many others brought up in post reformation sectarian religious groups he has a very poor grasp of the whole gospel, and puts stock in too many opposing man made doctrines.
That why i guess why i am a good evengelist!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 06/26/2002
Sadly that is true Evan. Too many aren't interested in truth these days.. They just want something that sounds good. In that respect they get tossed by every wind and wave of doctrine that modern evangelicals come up with. Mormons are good evangelists too. So are jw. But it doesn't make it true just because their sales tactics are working.
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