research and true study of Romans 6!
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Hello Faith and whosoever!let continue the study and truth of Roman 6 on this thread!Now can we continue in Roman 6?Ro:6:5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:Notice how this is a done more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/29/2012 07:22:32
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Originally posted by evangelist
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, we don't have to try to obey every single law. We are under the Law of Love. Upon this Law, the two GREAT Commandments, hangs the whole of the Law.
I will ask you again as I asked you once before. If you steal from your neighbour, have you truly loved him as you love yourself? Have you truly obeyed the Law of Love?
NO, in man eyes, but in God eyes, he never seen you do any stealing period!
one love
Your neighbour things the other neighbour stole and thinks you are a saint on earth. God sees what is in the heart. You would not have stolen anything if the desire to steal had not first formed in your heart.
If God never saw anything, you would not need Jesus to be your advocate. The Bible does not say that Jesus hides everything you do. That is a man-made deception.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Note especially verse 17, they were servants of sin but no longer - why? Not simply because they believed but because they obeyed.
Obeyed from the heart. We serve whom we obey. Stumbling is not going to damn us, but repentance is necessary because otherwise we will be caught up in the mire from which we were freed.
A deep study can't be done if you are going to jump ahead, let take this line apon line and precept upon precepts ok?
We will get to the other verses soon or latter!
So do you agree with me in verse 5 of romans 6 or not?ß
one love
No. I agree with Paul.
If we have been planted in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection.
Nothing more nothing less.
And it is inappropriate to look at a single verse without looking at the surrounding context. That error is how we ended up with forty thousand plus different denominations.
Line upon line, precept upon precept, does not mean one line upon itself and avoiding rules.
quote:
A precept (from the Latin: præcipere, to teach) is a commandment, instruction, or order intended as an authoritative rule of action.
What is the rule of action in that line?
Baptism.
What does baptism do?
It raises us up to new life in Christ.
Do you agree with this? or do we need to break this one line down a little further?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, we don't have to try to obey every single law. We are under the Law of Love. Upon this Law, the two GREAT Commandments, hangs the whole of the Law.
I will ask you again as I asked you once before. If you steal from your neighbour, have you truly loved him as you love yourself? Have you truly obeyed the Law of Love?
NO, in man eyes, but in God eyes, he never seen you do any stealing period!
one love
Your neighbour things the other neighbour stole and thinks you are a saint on earth. God sees what is in the heart. You would not have stolen anything if the desire to steal had not first formed in your heart.
If God never saw anything, you would not need Jesus to be your advocate. The Bible does not say that Jesus hides everything you do. That is a man-made deception.
NO! that is a Jesus concept!
All our sin are covered by the pureness and sinless , person of Christ!
Whatsoever sin we do is blinded by Jesus perfection before God or His blood is the viel for us, but because of that truth is no reason to steal, or cheat or lie, because we should be light of this world before me as little Christ like children !
A real christian by the way doesn't have a disire to steal, but they might be decieved from the unrenewed mind to do such thing, but thier born again spirit doesn't desire stealing or doing any sins!
This is mainly what Romans 6 is zeaching!
Can a dead man want to steal and steal after buried in a grave yard??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/08/2012 20:20:22
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That is carnal thinking. Stick with what is in the Bible please.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Note especially verse 17, they were servants of sin but no longer - why? Not simply because they believed but because they obeyed.
Obeyed from the heart. We serve whom we obey. Stumbling is not going to damn us, but repentance is necessary because otherwise we will be caught up in the mire from which we were freed.
A deep study can't be done if you are going to jump ahead, let take this line apon line and precept upon precepts ok?
We will get to the other verses soon or latter!
So do you agree with me in verse 5 of romans 6 or not?ß
one love
No. I agree with Paul.
If we have been planted in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection.
Nothing more nothing less.
And it is inappropriate to look at a single verse without looking at the surrounding context. That error is how we ended up with forty thousand plus different denominations.
Line upon line, precept upon precept, does not mean one line upon itself and avoiding rules.
quote:
A precept (from the Latin: præcipere, to teach) is a commandment, instruction, or order intended as an authoritative rule of action.
What is the rule of action in that line?
Baptism.
What does baptism do?
It raises us up to new life in Christ.
Do you agree with this? or do we need to break this one line down a little further?
the rule is verse by verse!
The baptism put us in Christ place and Christ in us which is a spiritual thing unseen, and no water involved before God!
You can break it down more if it helps your catholic theology!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Where did it say that no water was involved?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Member since 03/06/2010
Location: United Kingdom
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
One thing that never seems to change. When Evan says research or truth, you can be sure that he hasn't done the research and isn't grasping the truth.. Like so many others brought up in post reformation sectarian religious groups he has a very poor grasp of the whole gospel, and puts stock in too many opposing man made doctrines.
That sounds just like the catholics.
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PM
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quote:
All our sin are covered by the pureness and sinless , person of Christ!
Whatsoever sin we do is blinded by Jesus perfection before God or His blood is the viel for us, but because of that truth is no reason to steal, or cheat or lie, because we should be light of this world before me as little Christ like children !
Please qualify that remark. If you continue to profess that Jesus' sacrifice absolves you of unrepentent sin, that is heretical.
quote:
A real christian by the way doesn't have a disire to steal, but they might be decieved from the unrenewed mind to do such thing, but thier born again spirit doesn't desire stealing or doing any sins!
A mature Christian will have the experience of relationship with the Holy Spirit and past reconciliation and repentance with Christ to stop both the adject and abject desires to covet, hate, possess, etc.
A young Christian will be in development of that relationship with the Trinity and with the building of self awareness toward recognizing sin where it lays - in wait - and then what to do with those disordered appetites and behaviors as they attempt to become established.
What works for you (a "real" Christian) works only for you. Your system is not universal for all and would lead children into deeper and deeper sin.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 07/09/2012 06:49:37
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Where did it say that no water was involved?
That is like you asking where in Romans say there was no funeral and no dead body when the scripture say we died in Christ!
You can make every world (baptism) a use of a water ritual!
It is again like you are interpretating the scripture to cut out your eyes if it offend you than to lose your whole body, so we must think everyone is walking around with a knife or folk to dug out your eye ball when you look at a women or man in a sexual lust!
That would be non sence!
The same eror is being done in John and Jesus had to correct nicodemus, about a what is spiritual with what is natural!
The baptism in Roamns 6 is a spiritural baptism!
Joh:6:63: It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/09/2012 09:50:49
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
One thing that never seems to change. When Evan says research or truth, you can be sure that he hasn't done the research and isn't grasping the truth.. Like so many others brought up in post reformation sectarian religious groups he has a very poor grasp of the whole gospel, and puts stock in too many opposing man made doctrines.
That sounds just like the catholics.
Shalom G4
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
quote:
It is again like you are interpretating the scripture to cut out your eyes if it offend you than to lose your whole body, so we must think everyone is walking around with a knife or folk to dug out your eye ball when you look at a women or man in a sexual lust!
That would be non sence!
Chastity of the heart, mind and soul.
Not nonsense at all to control your sexual and covetous desires.
Christians are required to control their inordinate desires as well as to assist in the conversion of other people to do the same.
Don't understand the continual need to bring up this particular passage in Sacred Scripture. Control your heart and mind and it will control your bodily actions.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 07/09/2012 10:23:23
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Originally posted by evangelist
It is again like you are interpretating the scripture to cut out your eyes if it offend you than to lose your whole body, so we must think everyone is walking around with a knife or folk to dug out your eye ball when you look at a women or man in a sexual lust!
That would be non sence!
Chastity of the heart, mind and soul.
Not nonsense at all to control your sexual and covetous desires.
Christians are required to control their inordinate desires as well as to assist in the conversion of other people to do the same.
Don't understand the continual need to bring up this particular passage in Sacred Scripture. Control your heart and mind and it will control your bodily actions.
"Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."
Humility is in the asking. And, allowing the Holy Spirit in to convict our soul and guide our wills into conversion and repentance.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 07/09/2012 11:42:52
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Where did it say that no water was involved?
That is like you asking where in Romans say there was no funeral and no dead body when the scripture say we died in Christ!
No. Because Paul explains it well. This is "like" not this is literally this or that.
You can make every world (baptism) a use of a water ritual!
No. There are places in the Bible where it is explained to be metaphorical for something else. But where no such explantion, the default is water. There is no option B given.
When the Ethiopian Eunuch in Acts 8 sought baptism, the Eunuch did not have to specify which baptism - there was water. But he also did not seek either of the other two baptisms that you would say are more important than water baptism. Why would the Eunuch ask for the least important method that you say is only for men to see when the only Christian person with him was Philip?
You use Acts 10 to show that this event is baptism by the Spirit which was later followed by water. And yet, no one claimed any sort of baptism when the Spirit came over them, and Acts 19 shows that belief in general does not bring down the Spirit like this. This only happens with Baptism. Acts 8 shows this as well.
There is no separate baptism by belief shown in the Bible that does not include the hand of an Apostle or water. Acts 10 is a unique event that still required water after the Spirit, even though water normally came first.
You divide Baptism into different modes by your tradition. You assume that if you don't see water then water isn't used, but I guarantee you that no first century Christian imagined it possible to be baptized without water.
Jesus said that we must be born of Water AND Spirit, not one or the other.
It is again like you are interpretating the scripture to cut out your eyes if it offend you than to lose your whole body, so we must think everyone is walking around with a knife or folk to dug out your eye ball when you look at a women or man in a sexual lust!
That would be non sence!
I never got confused over that, but you are making a lot of confusion over baptism with out any strong scriptural support for your case.
And, while Jesus may have used hyperbole in Matthew 5, I have no doubt that there are a lot of men in Hell right now who wished they had gouged out their own eyes or cut off their own hands to avoid being where they are now.
The same eror is being done in John and Jesus had to correct nicodemus, about a what is spiritual with what is natural!
The baptism in Roamns 6 is a spiritural baptism!
Joh:6:63: It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
one love
All Christian baptism is spiritual, water is just the medium. You get confused because you don't understand that a symbole represents something ELSE. If you don't have the SYMBOL, then you also don't have the reality that IT Represents.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 06/26/2002
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
One thing that never seems to change. When Evan says research or truth, you can be sure that he hasn't done the research and isn't grasping the truth.. Like so many others brought up in post reformation sectarian religious groups he has a very poor grasp of the whole gospel, and puts stock in too many opposing man made doctrines.
That sounds just like the catholics.
Evan sounds like the Catholics? Nice.
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Fourth Member
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PM
Member since 01/26/2008
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
One thing that never seems to change. When Evan says research or truth, you can be sure that he hasn't done the research and isn't grasping the truth.. Like so many others brought up in post reformation sectarian religious groups he has a very poor grasp of the whole gospel, and puts stock in too many opposing man made doctrines.
That sounds just like the catholics.
That is just your false Protestantism preception of Catholics.
Protestants waste their entire lives away Protesting their false preception of the Catholic Church & create beliefs based on being opposed to their false preceptions of the Catholic Church.
I belonged to The International Churches of Christ. When I started to ask deeper questions why after a few whys nobody could give me an answer. eventually I went to the pastor & he gave me the run around also & told me to ask a person that I already asked.
I knew a friend who knew a Catholic priest so I asked the priest the same questions & he gave me a book that not only answered the questions but went far far beyond answering questions I did not even think about.
Through bigotry prejudices false assumptions & false premises Protestants are protesting a catholic church made up by Protestantism that does not actually exist.
Edited by michael on 07/09/2012 18:42:57
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