The Anti-Christ
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Every now and then I read some of the things that Baby3 finds about the end times and she has often asked about Catholic views. I thought it might be fun to look at the early Church views and speculate. I used to think that the Evangelicals were a little nuts trying to re-establish Israel and rebuild the Temple. Of course they were expecting Jesus to walk back into that Temple when He comes again. I have often thought that the Anti-Christ was going to enter the Catholic Church because we are the new Temple of God, but I could not reconcile how the Anti-Christ could overcome the Catholic Church by sitting at its head given that Christ promised that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. A Catholic Priest sent me in a better direction that made it all make so much more sense. From Catholic Answers: quote:
Irenaeus
"y means of the events which shall occur in the time of the Antichrist it is shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God, and that although a mere slave, he wishes to be proclaimed as king. For he, being endued with all the power of the devil, shall not come as a righteous king nor as a legitimate king in subjection to God, but as an impious, unjust, and lawless one . . . setting aside idols to persuade [men] that he himself is God, raising himself up as the only idol. . . . Moreover [Paul] has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways: that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God [2 Thess. 2:4] . . . in which the enemy shall sit, endeavoring to show himself as Christ" (Against Heresies 5:25:1-2 [A.D. 189]).
"Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of the Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number] when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him as supposing him not to be the expected
one. . . . It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy than to be making surmises and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned, and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved" (ibid., 5:30:2-3).
"But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months and will sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire" (ibid., 5:30:4).
quote:
Hippolytus
"Now as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of his royalty and glory, in the same way have the scriptures also beforehand spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion. Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Savior was manifested as a lamb, so he too in like manner will appear as a lamb without; within he is a wolf. The Savior came into the world in the circumcision [i.e., the Jewish race], and he will come in the same manner. . . . The Savior raised up and showed his holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem" (The Antichrist 6 [A.D. 200]).
"[W]e find it written regarding Antichrist . . . ‘Dan is a lion’s whelp, and he shall leap from Bashan’ [Deut. 33:22]. But that no one may err by supposing that this is said of the Savior, let him attend carefully to the matter. Dan, he says, is a lion’s whelp. And in naming the tribe of Dan, he declared clearly the tribe from which Antichrist is destined to spring. For as Christ springs from the tribe of Judah, so Antichrist is to spring from the tribe of Dan. And that the case stands thus, we see also from the words of Jacob: ‘Let Dan be a serpent, lying upon the ground, biting the horse’s heel’ [Gen. 49:17]. What then is meant by the serpent but Antichrist, that deceiver who is mentioned in Genesis [Gen. 3:1], who deceived Eve and supplanted Adam? . . . [I]t is in reality out of the tribe of Dan, then, that tyrant and king, that dread judge, that son of the devil, is destined to spring and arise" (ibid., 14).
"Above all, moreover, he will love the nation of the Jews. And with all these [Jews] he will work signs and terrible wonders, false wonders and not true, in order to deceive his impious equals. . . . And after that he will build the temple in Jerusalem and will restore it again speedily and give it over to the Jews" (Discourse on the End of the World 23-25 [A.D. 217]).
Cyprian is quite adamant that neither heretics nor the Anti-Christ will enter the Catholic Church, her PRIESTS won't allow it. We know that this is not referring to G4's pentecostal church as it does not have priests. This letter was written less than the 300 to 600 years claimed for the start of the Catholic Church. quote:
[b]Cyprian of Carthage
"If they [the heretics] desire peace, let them lay aside their arms. If they make atonement, why do they threaten? Or if they threaten, let them know that they are not feared by God’s priests. For even Antichrist, when he shall begin to come, will not enter into the Church [even though] he threatens; neither shall we yield to his arms and violence, [though] he declares that he will destroy us if we resist" (Letters 69[70]:3 [A.D. 253]).
The advice is good. It is not for us to know when this will all unfold. The important thing is that we continue to abide in Christ. But I am concerned that there are many Evangelicals that are seeking to restore the Temple in Jerusalem in the hopes that Jesus Christ will enter there, when it is more likely that the Anti-Christ that will come instead. The Jews rejected the true Messiah and are awaiting another. Another shall be given to them. A false Messiah, Anti-Christ. This man of lawlessness will impress them with false signs and lying wonders, and be accepted by them as the True Messiah in place of Jesus Christ. The deception will be powerful enough to give pause even to the Elect. I fear that many will not recognise the man of lawlessness, mistaking him instead for their Messiah come to rescue them. Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Every now and then I read some of the things that Baby3 finds about the end times and she has often asked about Catholic views. I thought it might be fun to look at the early Church views and speculate.
I used to think that the Evangelicals were a little nuts trying to re-establish Israel and rebuild the Temple. Of course they were expecting Jesus to walk back into that Temple when He comes again.
I have often thought that the Anti-Christ was going to enter the Catholic Church because we are the new Temple of God, but I could not reconcile how the Anti-Christ could overcome the Catholic Church by sitting at its head given that Christ promised that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church.
A Catholic Priest sent me in a better direction that made it all make so much more sense.
From Catholic Answers:
quote:
Irenaeus
"y means of the events which shall occur in the time of the Antichrist it is shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God, and that although a mere slave, he wishes to be proclaimed as king. For he, being endued with all the power of the devil, shall not come as a righteous king nor as a legitimate king in subjection to God, but as an impious, unjust, and lawless one . . . setting aside idols to persuade [men] that he himself is God, raising himself up as the only idol. . . . Moreover [Paul] has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways: that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God [2 Thess. 2:4] . . . in which the enemy shall sit, endeavoring to show himself as Christ" (Against Heresies 5:25:1-2 [A.D. 189]).
"Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of the Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number] when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him as supposing him not to be the expected
one. . . . It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy than to be making surmises and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned, and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved" (ibid., 5:30:2-3).
"But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months and will sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire" (ibid., 5:30:4).
quote:
Hippolytus
"Now as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of his royalty and glory, in the same way have the scriptures also beforehand spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion. Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Savior was manifested as a lamb, so he too in like manner will appear as a lamb without; within he is a wolf. The Savior came into the world in the circumcision [i.e., the Jewish race], and he will come in the same manner. . . . The Savior raised up and showed his holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem" (The Antichrist 6 [A.D. 200]).
"[W]e find it written regarding Antichrist . . . ‘Dan is a lion’s whelp, and he shall leap from Bashan’ [Deut. 33:22]. But that no one may err by supposing that this is said of the Savior, let him attend carefully to the matter. Dan, he says, is a lion’s whelp. And in naming the tribe of Dan, he declared clearly the tribe from which Antichrist is destined to spring. For as Christ springs from the tribe of Judah, so Antichrist is to spring from the tribe of Dan. And that the case stands thus, we see also from the words of Jacob: ‘Let Dan be a serpent, lying upon the ground, biting the horse’s heel’ [Gen. 49:17]. What then is meant by the serpent but Antichrist, that deceiver who is mentioned in Genesis [Gen. 3:1], who deceived Eve and supplanted Adam? . . . [I]t is in reality out of the tribe of Dan, then, that tyrant and king, that dread judge, that son of the devil, is destined to spring and arise" (ibid., 14).
"Above all, moreover, he will love the nation of the Jews. And with all these [Jews] he will work signs and terrible wonders, false wonders and not true, in order to deceive his impious equals. . . . And after that he will build the temple in Jerusalem and will restore it again speedily and give it over to the Jews" (Discourse on the End of the World 23-25 [A.D. 217]).
Cyprian is quite adamant that neither heretics nor the Anti-Christ will enter the Catholic Church, her PRIESTS won't allow it. We know that this is not referring to G4's pentecostal church as it does not have priests. This letter was written less than the 300 to 600 years claimed for the start of the Catholic Church.
quote:
[b]Cyprian of Carthage
"If they [the heretics] desire peace, let them lay aside their arms. If they make atonement, why do they threaten? Or if they threaten, let them know that they are not feared by God’s priests. For even Antichrist, when he shall begin to come, will not enter into the Church [even though] he threatens; neither shall we yield to his arms and violence, [though] he declares that he will destroy us if we resist" (Letters 69[70]:3 [A.D. 253]).
The advice is good. It is not for us to know when this will all unfold. The important thing is that we continue to abide in Christ.
But I am concerned that there are many Evangelicals that are seeking to restore the Temple in Jerusalem in the hopes that Jesus Christ will enter there, when it is more likely that the Anti-Christ that will come instead.
The Jews rejected the true Messiah and are awaiting another. Another shall be given to them. A false Messiah, Anti-Christ.
This man of lawlessness will impress them with false signs and lying wonders, and be accepted by them as the True Messiah in place of Jesus Christ.
The deception will be powerful enough to give pause even to the Elect. I fear that many will not recognise the man of lawlessness, mistaking him instead for their Messiah come to rescue them.
The catholic church is the temple of the devil, Not the Temple of God, Get it right.
Jesus said the gates of hell shall not prevail over His Church, Not the catholics, Get it right.
You yourself have admited that the catholic teachings aren't in the Bible, [Which there not], So how can you be God's Church??. Get it right.
catholics and their priests are heretics, So why say the catholic priest wont allow heretics in their churches??.
In God's true Church there are no priests, exept every Christian is a priest unto God, So the pentecostals are right Church, Get it right.
History proves that the catholic church wasn't formed by the devil until at leadst 300-600 years later.
You never get anything right..DO YOU??.
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Well, there was a Church that worshipped Christ as their Lord and Saviour that DID have priests before the 300 AD. But there is no mention of anything looking like your church back then.
And stop saying that I "admitted" anything about my church doctrines not being in the Bible. I said that they all were based on the scriptures. Just becaue you disagree does not change that.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Well, there was a Church that worshipped Christ as their Lord and Saviour that DID have priests before the 300 AD. But there is no mention of anything looking like your church back then.
And stop saying that I "admitted" anything about my church doctrines not being in the Bible. I said that they all were based on the scriptures. Just becaue you disagree does not change that.
There might have been a church that thought they worshipped Jesus, But it wasn't the TRUE Church, The TRUR Church doesn't have priests.
Let me show you what the Bible says about the Jesus given, God set Ministries.
"Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers".
Where is the priest???.
So no true Church will have priests.
I rest my case.
You did say the catholic doctrines aren't in the Bible, STOP TELLING LIES.
The catholic doctrines aren't based on the Bible, STOP TELLING LIES.
You should know by now that the Bible and the Greek prove the catholic teachings wrong.
If you don't, you are either very thick, Or down right dishonest.
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Well, there was a Church that worshipped Christ as their Lord and Saviour that DID have priests before the 300 AD. But there is no mention of anything looking like your church back then.
And stop saying that I "admitted" anything about my church doctrines not being in the Bible. I said that they all were based on the scriptures. Just becaue you disagree does not change that.
There might have been a church that thought they worshipped Jesus, But it wasn't the TRUE Church, The TRUR Church doesn't have priests.
Let me show you what the Bible says about the Jesus given, God set Ministries.
"Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers".
Where is the priest???.
So no true Church will have priests.
I rest my case.
We know you are incorrect. Your denominination not only isn't universal after 2,000 years, it also isn't unified.
Jesus built His Church upon one man holding an office of authority in His Church, as God the Father also did throughout salvation history.
You conveniently forget to mention that authoritarian office.
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Hey, g4, Iraneas' description of the antichrist sounds a bit like you.
Besides the fact that you are no king. More like a court jester. You do have a god complex and tend to be impious, lawless and unjust.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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There can be no "High Priest" if there are no ministerial priests under him. The Royal Priesthood of believers established under MOSES, is not the ministerial priesthood.
I can only assume then that G4 does not believe that Jesus is a High Priest either.
However, this is getting a little sidetracked.
What I found to be most interesting was that with the Evangelical push to rebuild the Temple at Jerusalem for the people of the State of Israel, they may actually be ushering in the age of THE Anti-Christ.
And this would also answer why so many would be fooled. The Jews would be fooled because they are expecting their Messiah and this forgery will appeal to this need, and this will also serve as just desserts for a people who rejected the true Messiah. But with so many Christians seeking to build the Temple at Jerusalem for Christ to enter, I can see many being deceived when the false Christ walks in and takes his place in the Temple as if he were God.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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From what I understand, many Jews believe that the rebuilding of the Temple Mount should be constructed exactly where the Islamic Dome of the Rock currently rests.
There is one man who believes otherwise, using aerial infrared heat signature photography of the area. He believes that this heat signature is being registered off the footings of the 2nd Temple complex.
http://www.bible-prophecy.com/templenotes.htm
I know that the red heifer requirement has been genetically identified, and those are being raised in various places, and here in the United States.
quote:
Some Christians believe that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ cannot occur until the Third Temple is constructed in Jerusalem, which requires the appearance of a red heifer born in Israel. Clyde Lott, a cattle breeder in O'Neill, Nebraska, United States, is attempting to systematically breed red heifers and export them to Israel to establish a breeding line of red heifers in Israel in the hope that this will bring about the construction of the Third Temple and ultimately the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_heifer
See also: Red Angus
http://www.google.com/search?q=red+angus&rlz=1I7ADBR_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/redangus/
Anyone else watch Supernatural to see the episode titled, "Monster at the End of This Book" with the prophet Chuck? Dean does everything opposite of what the prophet foretells and walks right into the inevitable.
I personally believe this denominational push for the fulfillment of Revelation (which also exists in militant Islam) will result in a nuclear explosion in Israel - and elsewhere of course - in retaliation.
Millions of people will die. The death and hatred will continue and yet man will find that they do not force the hand of God into action.
Just as Abraham and Sara did not accomplish for God - what God had both foretold and promised.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 07/12/2012 14:55:30
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
The catholic church is the temple of the devil, Not the Temple of God, Get it right.
catholics and their priests are heretics, So why say the catholic priest wont allow heretics in their churches??.
In God's true Church there are no priests, exept every Christian is a priest unto God, So the pentecostals are right Church, Get it right.
History proves that the catholic church wasn't formed by the devil until at leadst 300-600 years later.
You never get anything right..DO YOU??.
G4Me,
For the sake of your soul, you need to know that bearing false witness is a mortal sin against a Commandment (either 8th or 9th depending on your denomination).
Your speech here - is also the commission of the sin of calumny.
Doesn't your denomination teach the Commandments, the Two Great Commandments, or the Beattitudes?
Read the Bible for heaven's sake. Clean up your language, you're behavior is an embarassment to Christianity.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 07/12/2012 12:58:35
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I was very worried that any attempt to build the Temple over the Dome would result in a nuclear war, but if they do build it away from that, they could reconstruct something that might pass for the Temple, and create a plausible scenario for the Anti-Christ.
AND, while I do believe that it is foolish for men to try to bring about the second coming or otherwise "help" God fullfill prophecy, I can see God, who knows us so well and what we will do, using this arrogance against those who would do this.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
The catholic church is the temple of the devil, Not the Temple of God, Get it right.
catholics and their priests are heretics, So why say the catholic priest wont allow heretics in their churches??.
In God's true Church there are no priests, exept every Christian is a priest unto God, So the pentecostals are right Church, Get it right.
History proves that the catholic church wasn't formed by the devil until at leadst 300-600 years later.
You never get anything right..DO YOU??.
G4Me,
For the sake of your soul, you need to know that bearing false witness is a mortal sin against a Commandment (either 8th or 9th depending on your denomination).
Your speech here - is also the commission of the sin of calumny.
Doesn't your denomination teach the Commandments, the Two Great Commandments, or the Beattitudes?
Read the Bible for heaven's sake. Clean up your language, you're behavior is an embarassment to Christianity.
I'm not bearing false witness, STOP TELLING LIES, What I said is the truth.
It is you who is embarased, As the truth proves catholics are wrong, evil and a devil inspired man mahe false religion who's teachings aren't in the Bible.
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Well, there was a Church that worshipped Christ as their Lord and Saviour that DID have priests before the 300 AD. But there is no mention of anything looking like your church back then.
And stop saying that I "admitted" anything about my church doctrines not being in the Bible. I said that they all were based on the scriptures. Just becaue you disagree does not change that.
There might have been a church that thought they worshipped Jesus, But it wasn't the TRUE Church, The TRUR Church doesn't have priests.
Let me show you what the Bible says about the Jesus given, God set Ministries.
"Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers".
Where is the priest???.
So no true Church will have priests.
I rest my case.
We know you are incorrect. Your denominination not only isn't universal after 2,000 years, it also isn't unified.
Jesus built His Church upon one man holding an office of authority in His Church, as God the Father also did throughout salvation history.
You conveniently forget to mention that authoritarian office.
There you go agian, TELLING LIES, "bwellmysoul", Your soul will never be well as long as you are telling lies.
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Hey, g4, Iraneas' description of the antichrist sounds a bit like you.
Besides the fact that you are no king. More like a court jester. You do have a god complex and tend to be impious, lawless and unjust.
People called Jesus names, So I am in good company.
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
There can be no "High Priest" if there are no ministerial priests under him. The Royal Priesthood of believers established under MOSES, is not the ministerial priesthood.
I can only assume then that G4 does not believe that Jesus is a High Priest either.
However, this is getting a little sidetracked.
What I found to be most interesting was that with the Evangelical push to rebuild the Temple at Jerusalem for the people of the State of Israel, they may actually be ushering in the age of THE Anti-Christ.
And this would also answer why so many would be fooled. The Jews would be fooled because they are expecting their Messiah and this forgery will appeal to this need, and this will also serve as just desserts for a people who rejected the true Messiah. But with so many Christians seeking to build the Temple at Jerusalem for Christ to enter, I can see many being deceived when the false Christ walks in and takes his place in the Temple as if he were God.
Every Christian is a Priest unto God, And Jesus is our High Priest, But there is no Ministerial office of a priest, Read it yourself.
Eph 4: 11.
Jesus gave Apostels, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers.
Where is the priest??.
It's about time you started to believe the Bible instead of the pope's porkies, And the catholic con-men.
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Hey, g4, Iraneas' description of the antichrist sounds a bit like you.
Besides the fact that you are no king. More like a court jester. You do have a god complex and tend to be impious, lawless and unjust.
People called Jesus names, So I am in good company.
There you go again, thinking you're like Jesus. g4, you have called me every evil name in your vocabulary several times... so I guess it is I who is in good company  .
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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What is interesting is that the "ministry" of the antichrist will embrace the very temptations rejected by Jesus in the desert.
It will be a ministry based on vain-glory, military & political success, and result in wide-spread acclaim & worship.
Contrast that with Jesus' ministry of personal rejection, suffering and ignoble death, save for those few who knew Him well.
I can't help but wonder if the antichrist wouldn't appeal to evengelical religio-political desires, as well as the whole prosperity-gospellers more than the real Jesus, who will always be a simple servant-king?
Ad Maioram Dei Gloriam
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