MARY EVER VIRGIN
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Some posters here deny that Mary is Ever Virgin. They allege she had other children ... and they also lean on the word "Till".Now, who are Mary's other children? And does the word "Till" always mean that something that did not happen up to that point, later happened?Please more...
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Quite right. It does not matter how you write it in English or how you want to interpret the English. The Greek word does not change and it only speaks to the period leading up to an event, not whatever may or may not happen after, unless the sentence specifically states that something will happen after such time.
Otherwise, the Bible would be filled with a lot of very silly statements - do you honestly think that Paul meant that Timothy would not have to give attendence to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine, after Paul arrived?
The point of that passage in Matthew was not that Joseph and Mary would have carnal relations, but that Jesus would be born of a virgin.
Stop twisting the truth, YOU WICKED HELLBOUND WOMAN.
I have shown you that Mary had other children, I have proved it from the Bible and the original Greek texts.
All you do is speculate.
Yu said.
[Quote]
The point of that passage in Matthew was not that Joseph and Mary would have carnal relations, but that Jesus would be born of a virgin.
[End quote]
That is a catholic lie told by an evil catholic.
The poing of Matt 1: 25 is, Joseph and Mary had sexual relations after Jesus was born.
Seriously??
Are you so carnally minded that the virgin birth is irrelevent to you?
You honestly believe that the point of Matthew 1:25 was that Joseph got his rocks off? THAT is more important to you than Jesus being born of a virgin in fulfillment of the prophecies?
Are you really that thick???
What?
Mary had GOD in her womb for nine months, put there by the Holy Spirit, and you honestly believe that the first thing Joseph is going to do is follow the Holy Spirit into Hallowed ground? To enter in where his LORD came out?
FYI, Joseph was a devout Jew not some horny televangelist.
Stop twistig God's Holy truth, YOU WICKED EVIL HELLBOUND WOMAN.
You really believe the catholic church has more truth then the Bible does, You believe the catholic con-men and the pope's porkies rather then God.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[1]2 Samuel is in the Old Testament.
Aha, now the word “till” depends of whether the book is in the Old or in the New Testament; it no longer depends of Greek. That is the spectacular dancing around words that I expected from God4me.
[2]Maccabees isn't in the Bible, It isn't inspired by God.
Your pastor told you so, but that jeopardizes your case ... but I will leave at that for now, because it would take us out of topic.
[3]Mat 1: 25, In the Bible and the original Greek text, Means Mary and Joseph had sexual relations after Jesus was born.[/quote]
That is what you want it to mean, but that is not what the author was concerned with. The author was proving virgin birth; that Joseph was not Jesus’ father. The author was not concerned with what happened afterward.
[/quote]
Stop telling lies, And stop twisting the truth,
YOU WICKED EVIL HELLBOUND MAN.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
2)Biblical proof That Mary had other children.
The Greek word for "Brethren" is Adelphos"
Matt 13: 55. Mk 6: 3. Jn 7: 3-5. Acts 1: 13--14. 1 Cor 9: 5.
[quote]Originally posted by God4me
4)If Jesus's brothers in Matt 13: 55. Mk 6: 3. meant Cousin or kinfolk, The Greek word would be, "Sungenis, Or Sungenes".
And it would read like this,
"Is this not Mary His mother, and His Sungenes, Sungenis, James, Joses, Simon and Judas".
But it reads like this.
"Is this not Mary His mother, and His Adelphos, James, Joses, Simon and Judas".
Have you noticed that the mother of Jesus’ brothers is another Mary, the wife of Clopas who was the sister of Jesus’ mother (John 19:25)? Another clue for those with eyes to see: How can Mary have a sister who is also named Mary and then both have children with similar names?
But no, God4me has stopped thinking for himself a long time ago and is now exclusively parroting what his deceiving pastor told him.
That was another Mary you dope.
KEEP TO THE FACT that I've shown you
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
NOTE, The Sisters in Matt 13: 56, Are Jesus's sisters and their mother is Mary.
Yes, their mother is Mary, the wife of Clopas and sister of Jesus' mother.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[A] The Greek meaning for, "Till", is, Until.
This is how it reads in the Greek.
"Joseph didn't have a sexual relationship with Mary Until after Jesus was born"..Meaning He did after the birth of Jesus.
No, that is not what it means. It means that Joseph is not Jesus’ father because he did not know Mary before Jesus was born. What happened afterward was of no concern to Matthew.
[B]NOTE The word, "Firstborn".. Not only born.
The meaning for "Firstborn" is self explaining.
Yes, it is self explanaining in that the firstborn is firstborn regardless of whether there was a second child, but according to God4me’s strange reasoning, a firstborn becomes a firstborn ONLY AFTER a second child was born.
[/quote]
Stop telling lies and twistig God's Holy truth, YOU WICKED EVIL HELLBOUND MAN.
You really believe the catholic church has more truth then the Bible does, You believe the catholic con-men and the pope's porkies rather then God.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
quote:
Originally posted by heavenlysecrets
This gate will stay SHUT and will never be opened! No human being is allowed to use it, because I, THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL, have entered through it. It is to remain SHUT!!! Ezekiel 44:2
That Bible text remains "meaningless" to people like God4me unless they can twist it to mean something totally different.
There you go again, TELLING LIES, It's the catholic who twist the truth, As you know very well
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Stop telling lies, And stop twisting the truth,
YOU WICKED EVIL HELLBOUND MAN.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
There you go again, TELLING LIES, It's the catholic who twist the truth, As you know very well.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Stop telling lies and twistig God's Holy truth, YOU WICKED EVIL HELLBOUND MAN.[/qupte]
Those are titbits from an automatic posting machine. There is no thinking person behind such repetition of boring slogans.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
That was another Mary you dope.
Yes, that was another Mary, the wife of Clopas/Alpheus and the mother of James, Joseph and Jude, the brothers of Jesus. So, the brothers of Jesus were children of another Mary, a sister of Jesus’ mother.
[quote]Originally posted by God4me
[You really believe the catholic church has more truth then the Bible does, You believe the catholic con-men and the pope's porkies rather then God.
But in practice, every one here can see that it is God4me who does neither believe the Bible nor believe Jesus:
1. When the Bible says the church is the pillar and ground of truth God4me says NO!
2. When Jesus says “take and eat, this is my body” God4me says NO! Instead, God4me follows the murmuring Jews who considered Jesus’ teaching in John 6 as too hard to believe.
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Fifth Member
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Location: Namibia
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Stop telling lies, And stop twisting the truth,
YOU WICKED EVIL HELLBOUND MAN.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
There you go again, TELLING LIES, It's the catholic who twist the truth, As you know very well.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Stop telling lies and twistig God's Holy truth, YOU WICKED EVIL HELLBOUND MAN.
Those are titbits from an automatic posting machine. There is thinking person behind such repetitious slogans.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
That was another Mary you dope.
Yes, that was another Mary, the wife of Clopas/Alpheus and the mother of James, Joseph and Jude, the brothers of Jesus. So, the brothers of Jesus were children of another Mary, a sister of Jesus’ mother.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[You really believe the catholic church has more truth then the Bible does, You believe the catholic con-men and the pope's porkies rather then God.
But in practice every one here can see that it is Gor4me who does neither believe the Bible nor believe Jesus:
1. When the Bible says the church is the pillar and ground of truth God4me says NO!
2. When Jesus says “take and eat, this is my body” God4me says NO! Instead, God4me follows the murmuring Jews who consider Jesus’ teaching in John 6 as too hard to believe.
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Quite right. It does not matter how you write it in English or how you want to interpret the English. The Greek word does not change and it only speaks to the period leading up to an event, not whatever may or may not happen after, unless the sentence specifically states that something will happen after such time.
Otherwise, the Bible would be filled with a lot of very silly statements - do you honestly think that Paul meant that Timothy would not have to give attendence to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine, after Paul arrived?
The point of that passage in Matthew was not that Joseph and Mary would have carnal relations, but that Jesus would be born of a virgin.
Stop twisting the truth, YOU WICKED HELLBOUND WOMAN.
I have shown you that Mary had other children, I have proved it from the Bible and the original Greek texts.
All you do is speculate.
Yu said.
[Quote]
The point of that passage in Matthew was not that Joseph and Mary would have carnal relations, but that Jesus would be born of a virgin.
[End quote]
That is a catholic lie told by an evil catholic.
The poing of Matt 1: 25 is, Joseph and Mary had sexual relations after Jesus was born.
Seriously??
Are you so carnally minded that the virgin birth is irrelevent to you?
You honestly believe that the point of Matthew 1:25 was that Joseph got his rocks off? THAT is more important to you than Jesus being born of a virgin in fulfillment of the prophecies?
Are you really that thick???
What?
Mary had GOD in her womb for nine months, put there by the Holy Spirit, and you honestly believe that the first thing Joseph is going to do is follow the Holy Spirit into Hallowed ground? To enter in where his LORD came out?
FYI, Joseph was a devout Jew not some horny televangelist.
Stop twistig God's Holy truth, YOU WICKED EVIL HELLBOUND WOMAN.
You really believe the catholic church has more truth then the Bible does, You believe the catholic con-men and the pope's porkies rather then God.
You didn't answer the question.
Sure the Pope affirms what is in the Bible, but you are the one who indicated that the virgin birth was a non-issue in the New Testament and that the primary focus was that Jesus' earthly dad got laid by the mother of Jesus.
So does your church preach the gospel of Joseph? Do you step up to the pulpit and extoll the virtues of the man who boinked the mother of the Messiah?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Quite right. It does not matter how you write it in English or how you want to interpret the English. The Greek word does not change and it only speaks to the period leading up to an event, not whatever may or may not happen after, unless the sentence specifically states that something will happen after such time.
Otherwise, the Bible would be filled with a lot of very silly statements - do you honestly think that Paul meant that Timothy would not have to give attendence to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine, after Paul arrived?
The point of that passage in Matthew was not that Joseph and Mary would have carnal relations, but that Jesus would be born of a virgin.
Stop twisting the truth, YOU WICKED HELLBOUND WOMAN.
I have shown you that Mary had other children, I have proved it from the Bible and the original Greek texts.
All you do is speculate.
Yu said.
[Quote]
The point of that passage in Matthew was not that Joseph and Mary would have carnal relations, but that Jesus would be born of a virgin.
[End quote]
That is a catholic lie told by an evil catholic.
The poing of Matt 1: 25 is, Joseph and Mary had sexual relations after Jesus was born.
Seriously??
Are you so carnally minded that the virgin birth is irrelevent to you?
You honestly believe that the point of Matthew 1:25 was that Joseph got his rocks off? THAT is more important to you than Jesus being born of a virgin in fulfillment of the prophecies?
Are you really that thick???
What?
Mary had GOD in her womb for nine months, put there by the Holy Spirit, and you honestly believe that the first thing Joseph is going to do is follow the Holy Spirit into Hallowed ground? To enter in where his LORD came out?
FYI, Joseph was a devout Jew not some horny televangelist.
Stop twistig God's Holy truth, YOU WICKED EVIL HELLBOUND WOMAN.
You really believe the catholic church has more truth then the Bible does, You believe the catholic con-men and the pope's porkies rather then God.
You didn't answer the question.
Sure the Pope affirms what is in the Bible, but you are the one who indicated that the virgin birth was a non-issue in the New Testament and that the primary focus was that Jesus' earthly dad got laid by the mother of Jesus.
So does your church preach the gospel of Joseph? Do you step up to the pulpit and extoll the virtues of the man who boinked the mother of the Messiah?
[1]Stop telling lies, YOU WICKED HELLBOUND WOMAN.
[2]Where does the Bible say Mary was an ever virgin??.
Edited by God4me on 07/28/2012 11:38:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Stop telling lies, And stop twisting the truth,
YOU WICKED EVIL HELLBOUND MAN.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
There you go again, TELLING LIES, It's the catholic who twist the truth, As you know very well.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Stop telling lies and twistig God's Holy truth, YOU WICKED EVIL HELLBOUND MAN.[/qupte]
Those are titbits from an automatic posting machine. There is no thinking person behind such repetition of boring slogans.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
That was another Mary you dope.
Yes, that was another Mary, the wife of Clopas/Alpheus and the mother of James, Joseph and Jude, the brothers of Jesus. So, the brothers of Jesus were children of another Mary, a sister of Jesus’ mother.
[quote]Originally posted by God4me
[You really believe the catholic church has more truth then the Bible does, You believe the catholic con-men and the pope's porkies rather then God.
But in practice, every one here can see that it is God4me who does neither believe the Bible nor believe Jesus:
1. When the Bible says the church is the pillar and ground of truth God4me says NO!
2. When Jesus says “take and eat, this is my body” God4me says NO! Instead, God4me follows the murmuring Jews who considered Jesus’ teaching in John 6 as too hard to believe.
Stop telling lies, YOU WICKED HELLBOUND MAN.
I have shown you what
"Pillar & ground of truth, And When Jesis said This is My body" means.
So what your saying is, You don't believe God, I already knew that.
Where does the Bible says Mary was an ever virgin??.
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[2]Where does the Bible say Mary was an ever virgin?
Where does the Bible say she was not?
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
I have shown you what "Pillar & ground of truth, And When Jesis said This is My body" means.
Yes, you have told me what you believe, namely that the Bible is the pillar and ground of truth, but that is not what the Bible says. In other words, you do not believe the Bible. And yes, you have told me what you think Jesus meant when He said this is my body, but what you believe is your belief that has no bearing on the truth. The truth – whether you believe it or not – is that Jesus said “this is my body” and I believe what Jesus said while you don’t.
Man, you urge us to believe what the Bible says. Fine! But when we believe what the Bible says, you come back and tell us not to believe what the Bible says, but rather to believe what you say the Bible says.
That is a sign of desperation and confusion. The only way to come out of such a state of affairs is to actually start believing the Bible instead of following the distortions of your deceiving pastor.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
So what your saying is, You don't believe God, I already knew that.
Okay, show me where I do not believe the Bible. Present what I believe and then present the Bible text that contradicts what I believe. After that, I will do the same with you.
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When Jesus gave his Mother into the care of John that was evidence that Mary did not have other children.
The prophecy was for a sign and that a virgin would concieve. Not that that the father of the Messiah would get laid.
Further OT prophecy was that no one else would pass through where the
Lord entered the world. If Jesus has brothers then He is not the Messiah.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[2]Where does the Bible say Mary was an ever virgin?
Where does the Bible say she was not?
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
I have shown you what "Pillar & ground of truth, And When Jesis said This is My body" means.
Yes, you have told me what you believe, namely that the Bible is the pillar and ground of truth, but that is not what the Bible says. In other words, you do not believe the Bible. And yes, you have told me what you think Jesus meant when He said this is my body, but what you believe is your belief that has no bearing on the truth. The truth – whether you believe it or not – is that Jesus said “this is my body” and I believe what Jesus said while you don’t.
Man, you urge us to believe what the Bible says. Fine! But when we believe what the Bible says, you come back and tell us not to believe what the Bible says, but rather to believe what you say the Bible says.
That is a sign of desperation and confusion. The only way to come out of such a state of affairs is to actually start believing the Bible instead of following the distortions of your deceiving pastor.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
So what your saying is, You don't believe God, I already knew that.
Okay, show me where I do not believe the Bible. Present what I believe and then present the Bible text that contradicts what I believe. After that, I will do the same with you.
[1]I have proved to you where the Bible says Mary wasn't always a virgin.
WAKE UP.
[2]I have shown you the original Greek meaning to the,
"Pillar & ground of truth", Not my own opinions, STOP TELLING LIES.
[3]Jesus was speaking metaphorically in Jn 6, Was Jesus given His disciples bread or His body, In Matt 26: 26,???.
In Acts 2: 46 And Acts 20: 7, Were they breaking bread or the Lords body??.
Nowhere does the Bible say the communion bread becomes the Lord's real body.
[4]You don't believe the BIble, You believe your own wrong interpretations of the Bible, GET IT RIGHT MAN.
[5]I do believe the Bible, And I don't mis-interpret it like the catholics do.
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
When Jesus gave his Mother into the care of John that was evidence that Mary did not have other children.
The prophecy was for a sign and that a virgin would concieve. Not that that the father of the Messiah would get laid.
Further OT prophecy was that no one else would pass through where the
Lord entered the world. If Jesus has brothers then He is not the Messiah.
Jesus never gave Mary to John, All He said was, "Look at her".
I have shown you Biblical and the original Greek proof that Mary had other children.
Now you give me scripture proof that Mary was an ever virgin, Yoou catholics believe and say she was always a virgin, NOW PROVE IT FROM THE BIBLE... Not just your normal speculation.
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[1]I have proved to you where the Bible says Mary wasn't always a virgin.
No, you did no such a thing. You presented your opinion but your opinion is not infallible. The Bible nowhere says “Mary was not always a virgin”. Those six words (or their equivalent) are simply nowhere to be found in the Bible.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[2]I have shown you the original Greek meaning to the,
"Pillar & ground of truth", Not my own opinions, STOP TELLING LIES.
First, there is no original Greek saying the Bible is the pillar and ground of truth; second, I do not remember you ever presenting original Greek here; you only presented the English mistranslation you got from your pastor.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[3]Jesus was speaking metaphorically in Jn 6, Was Jesus given His disciples bread or His body, In Matt 26: 26,???.
Okay, let us try this metaphoric nonsense: “While they were eating metaphorically, Jesus metaphorically took metaphoric bread, said the metaphoric blessing, broke it metaphorically, and metaphorically giving it to his metaphoric disciples said, “Take and eat metaphorically; this is my metaphoric body.” Then he took a metaphoric cup, gave metaphoric thanks, and gave it to them metaphorically, saying, “Drink metaphorically from it, all of you, for this is my metaphoric blood of the metaphoric covenant, which will be shed metaphorically on behalf of many for the metaphoric forgiveness of metaphoric sins."
Are you happy now God4me?
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
In Acts 2: 46 And Acts 20: 7, Were they breaking bread or the Lords body??.
They were breaking the bread that is the Lord’s body. “Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 11:27).
Now tell me: how can one be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord by eating mere bread and drinking mere wine?
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Nowhere does the Bible say the communion bread becomes the Lord's real body.
But Jesus said “this is my body”. Was He lying? Was He out of His mind? Would you have corrected Him, saying ... "but Lord, you are misspeaking now, because that bread can never be your body".
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[4]You don't believe the BIble, You believe your own wrong interpretations of the Bible, GET IT RIGHT MAN.
Ah, I almost forgot: God4me is the final authority on determining what constitutes “wrong interpretation”. Reading the Bible for ourselves is no longer enough; we have to strictly follow God4me's interpretation of the Bible or be damned!
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[5]I do believe the Bible, And I don't mis-interpret it like the catholics do.
What you are saying is that you are the infallible interpreter of the Bible. How convenient!
But then, for the first 1500 years of Christianity no one ever interpreted the Bible the way you are interpreting it now. If your interpretation is the only correct one, then there were no true Christians until 1500 AD. Since that is not possible, what we have before us is someone preaching "another gospel" that was unknown for the first 1500 years of Christianity.
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