Proof of being "once saved"
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First Member
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Member since 06/26/2002
I know that I've asked this on several occasions here before, but now I think it demands an actual thread..
What I want to know is how to prove a person is saved. It isn't worth the time going into whether they are always saved if it cannot even be proven that a person has been "once saved". So please provide the proof. Show me how I can tell that you are saved for real and not just faking it. How can I know that your not really a wolf in sheeps clothing? What proof you can offer that you won't just get bored and walk away from faith in a year or two?
If you cannot offer absolute proof of your salvation, then I will gladly point out that the catholic church has been right all along in it's approach to faith..
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Fifth Member
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Member since 08/17/2005
Location: USA
I'll attempt to answer the question:
First, let me say that I agree with the Catholic belief that we can't know with absolute certainty that someone else is a believer. Infant baptism, participating in the Eucharist, going to confession, doing penance, (or from the Protestant side) repeating a prayer for salvation, joining a church, speaking in tongues, or being baptized as a believer do not guarantee a person is saved. These things, devoid of a genuine work of God, may merely be a meaningless thing a person does in order to satisfy requirements they think will get them in. God looks at the heart.
However, I disagree with the thought that it's impossible to have any assurance that one is being saved. I think Scripture would bear me out in making that statement. There are ways we can recognize in ourselves that God is working and that His Spirit is residing within us. Here are a few...
1. Has there been a genuine change in my life? 1 John 1 speaks of "walking in the light" or "walking in the darkness." The pattern of my life should display that there is a difference between me and those who do not know God.
2. What is my relationship with sin? Am I sensitive to sin? Do I deny that I still sin? Do I acknowledge my sin and am I brought to a point of repenting of that sin? I John 1 also tells us that "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Yet, "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."
3. What is my relationship with other believers? Am I consistently participating in living the life of a believer with other Christians? Am I participating with them in worship? Am I exercising the spiritual gifts given to me to edify the body of Christ? Do I actively love the brethren? Do I prefer to be with believers rather than those who hate my Lord? Do I share a bond of fellowship with believers wrought by the Holy Spirit?
4. What is the overall fruit of my life? Jesus said that you will know they by their fruit. In the parable of the sower, all the good soil produced a crop greater than what was sown. What is the evidence in my life that God is at work? The fruit of the Spirit should be evident in your life. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Are these becoming a greater and greater part of your character with each passing day? There should be an increasing of these characteristics in the life of every believer.
5. Do you endure discipline? Hebrews 12 makes it clear that God always disciplines every child who is legitimate. Can you sin without remorse? Can you continue in sin without rebuke? Can you live a life of sin without consequences? OR do you immediately know when you sin? Do you see God at work in your life, disciplining you for your own good and to conform you into the image of His Son?
6. Do you endure pruning? John 15 speaks of this. Even when you are walking in obedience, do you notice that God sends trials and tests your way? Do you see that God is working on certain flaws or failings in your character in various ways to prune you and make you even more fruitful?
7. Does His Spirit bear witness with your spirit that you are a child of God? (I list this one last because it seems we can make ourselves believe just about anything- the human heart is deceitfully wicked, who can know it?) Romans 8:16 and the surrounding context speaks about the fact that the Holy Spirit can confirm within us that we are indeed children of God. He relates this to our desire to mortify sin within ourselves and also the spirit of adoption and sonship- the lack of fear in going to God. We are not slaves, but sons. Our fear is respect, reverence, and awe, not a fear of punishment.
I don't think the answer is as simple as OSAS would have us believe. In the first place, OSAS is most often flawed because it is based on a one-time prayer or a one-time event. Salvation has a beginning but it has no end in this life. Therefore, to say, "I once prayed a prayer" or "There was a time when I repented" is an inadequate answer. The question is, "What is God doing in your life today?" Assurance, therefore, (in my opinion), is based on the evidence of God's ongoing work in your life. He who began a good work in you will complete it. All who are justified will be sanctified. (I know Catholics and I differ on the meanings of these words, but I'm giving my view) If it was a "once upon a time" kind of thing, it is meaningless.
That is my answer. Pardon my rambling. 
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Fifth Member
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Member since 10/13/2007
Location: USA
Cue the crickets.
That, or taking one Bible verse out of context in order to enslave it to one's will.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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Member since 03/06/2010
Location: United Kingdom
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Cue the crickets.
That, or taking one Bible verse out of context in order to enslave it to one's will.
I take it your talking about the catholics???. It sounds just like them.
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Member since 01/25/2012
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Surprised at all the silence; particularly when some here constantly shout how they are "saved" and Catholics are not.
Apparently, they don't have proof.
Just talk.
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Fifth Member
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Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
To believe in OSAS (once saved, always saved) one has to ignore a lot of what the Bible has to say on the matter ...
1. Concentrate on what one or two verses say, and
2. Ignore 99.99% of whatever else the Bible says on the matter.
That is what those who preach the false gospel of OSAS do.
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Member since 06/26/2002
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Cue the crickets.
That, or taking one Bible verse out of context in order to enslave it to one's will.
I take it your talking about the catholics???. It sounds just like them.
Oh yes, your right g4. We Catholics never post here.. We must be figments of your imagination.
Now I know that we Catholics are usually trouncing you within hours of a post, but again, when the non Catholics are asked to defend their claims. There is silence. Thanks for not answering my question. 
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Fifth Member
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Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
Still waiting.
If anyone needs something to pass the time.
http://minmaxsunt.wordpress.com/
Those who claim that so-and-so was saved when he accepted Jesus, are forced to swallow a bitter pill when so-and-so rejects Jesus later in life. They will then claim that so-and-so was never really saved to begin with.
In other words, one is never sure ... and that is exactly what Catholics are saying.
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Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
To believe in OSAS (once saved, always saved) one has to ignore a lot of what the Bible has to say on the matter ...
1. Concentrate on what one or two verses say, and
2. Ignore 99.99% of whatever else the Bible says on the matter.
That is what those who preach the false gospel of OSAS do.
HELLO!
You missed the main part of the question what Mike is asking, just like the same you do with scriptures and miss so much of the truth , and blame it on the protetstant non catholic belief system when it is you the issue!
It is not the attack on OSAS the issue mike is talking about as such but the issue as being saved period is a doubt for him, so basically he is confessing in his questioning he himself is not saved, and still a sinner to the core on his way to the pits of hell with satan and all the demons out of his own mouth!
Only saved , righteous people go to heaven and I think you know that , so check out his own quote word for word!
quote:
What I want to know is how to prove a person is saved. It isn't worth the time going into whether they are always saved if it cannot even be proven that a person has been "once saved". So please provide the proof. Show me how I can tell that you are saved for real and not just faking it. How can I know that your not really a wolf in sheeps clothing?
Mike has just shown word for word who is the wolf here don't anyone see that?
A Sheep knows who His shepard really is and who and where he belongs, and not in a wolf den!
If a new comer or a new person who just got interested in becoming a christian ask this question and was not saved, or an athiest would have asked this question , I would not make such a shout on about the question but Mike shame on you really and anyone other catholic here who doesn't school mike on this !
I hope mike was just playing a joke, and asking a dumm question just to start some jive because he had time to waste and waste someone else time, please I hope this is the case! 
Again if this was a new thread about once saved alway saved, I woud understand why Mike would start this , but that is not the case here, it is about being Saved first, or getting saved is a doubt, and unbeliever and unsaved sinner or athiest would only start a thread like this.
I hope FAITH will read this what Mike quoted and started!
She at least know a little better as a catholic to be ashame of what mike is asking for sure if nobody else!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 08/11/2012 00:18:39
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Fifth Member
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Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
HELLO!
You missed the main part of the question what Mike is asking, just like the same you do with scriptures and miss so much of the truth , and blame it on the protetstant non catholic belief system when it is you the issue!
It is not the attack on OSAS the issue mike is talking about as such but the issue as being saved period is a doubt for him, so basically he is confessing in his questioning he himself is not saved, and still a sinner to the core on his way to the pits of hell with satan and all the demons out of his own mouth!
Mike sounds like Virgin Mary ... even after an angel of the Lord said she is full of grace, she still confessed to be lowly. The difference is actually that Catholics prefer being humble (admitting they are sinners and STILL needing the Saviour) while Protestants prefer being boastful and righteous in their own eyes (practically having no further need of the Saviour).
A man who can claim to be already saved is saying he no longer needs the Saviour.
If you say you still need the Saviour then I will ask you "for what purpose if you are already saved?"
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Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
HELLO!
You missed the main part of the question what Mike is asking, just like the same you do with scriptures and miss so much of the truth , and blame it on the protetstant non catholic belief system when it is you the issue!
It is not the attack on OSAS the issue mike is talking about as such but the issue as being saved period is a doubt for him, so basically he is confessing in his questioning he himself is not saved, and still a sinner to the core on his way to the pits of hell with satan and all the demons out of his own mouth!
Mike sounds like Virgin Mary ... even after an angel of the Lord said she is full of grace, she still confessed to be lowly. The difference is actually that Catholics prefer being humble (admitting they are sinners and STILL needing the Saviour) while Protestants prefer being boastful and righteous in their own eyes (practically having no further need of the Saviour).
A man who can claim to be already saved is saying he no longer needs the Saviour.
If you say you still need the Saviour then I will ask you "for what purpose if you are already saved?"
First of all you need to know how we got saved!
Second you need to know your asurrance you are saved and not getting saved !
third you must start believing the bible in what it says about your salvation:
Ro:10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro:10:13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Eph:2:4: But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph:2:5: Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph:2:6: And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph:2:7: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph:2:8: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph:2:9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
When the bible tells me I am saved and I now sit in heavenly place that is not pride that is God gift to us and is an honor to recieve and now have in which we do have alone given to us this promise as a gift by Him alone and not of anything of myself so I can't boast about what I did, done , or worked for!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Fifth Member
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Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
First of all you need to know how we got saved!
Yes, knowing that is very important!
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Second you need to know your asurrance you are saved and not getting saved!
That one is false!
Matthew 10:22, “You will be hated by all because of my name, but whoever endures to the end WILL BE SAVED”.
Matthew 24:13, “But the one who perseveres to the end WILL BE SAVED”.
Those are Jesus’ own words and as you can see, salvation is conditional to enduring/persevering to the end. If you can not even believe Jesus I wonder whom you really believe.
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
third you must start believing the bible in what it says about your salvation:
I already do, do you?
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Ro:10:9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Ro:10:13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [b]shall be saved.
Yes, “shall be saved” on condition such a one endures to the end ... or do you simply choose to ignore Jesus’ own words I quoted above because they do not fit into your theology?
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Eph:2:4: But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph:2:5: Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph:2:6: And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph:2:7: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph:2:8: [b]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph:2:9: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Verse-pedling will not solve your problem. The issue you have to address is Jesus’ saying that those who endure to the end will be saved, yet you contradict Him saying you are already saved. That is the real problem that you have to address.
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
When the bible tells me I am saved and I now sit in heavenly place that is not pride that is God gift to us and is an honor to recieve and now have in which we do have alone given to us this promise as a gift by Him alone and not of anything of myself so I can't boast about what I did, done, or worked for!
Aha, making the Bible tell “you” that you are saved is a feel-good exercise, just like those who believed they were saved because they prophesied in Jesus’ name, cast out demons in Jesus’ name and performed mighty deeds in Jesus’ name ... only to be utterly shocked on judgement day when Jesus tells them “get out of here, I do not know you”.
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Are you serious in asking this question??
Mike! from all people who be here so long and even helped me with cedric, now asking this question to others, and looking for an answer at that, and telling other you are a saved catholic christian???? 
Of course I'm asking this question Evan. Do you seriously ask your questiions? Look I've asked you before and you could not answer, yet you still try to beat us over the head with you man made doctrines.. The catholics are correct, you are wrong, and unless you can offer proof of my question I see no way to back down.
What I find interesting is the lack of response for something that you guys make a huge stink about and try to beat us over the head with, but like everything else we discuss here, it is you that comes up lacking an answer, other than philosophy or the teaching of men, churchysm religious clubs, etc..
Now answer the question, prove your claim of salvation or just admit the catholic position is more truthful.
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