proof that catholic are still sinner and not Saved
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I am starting this thread because I am still shocked  to see that catholic and the catholic church still see's themselves as catholic sinners not saved now by grace and faith! Quote by kamati quote:
Yes, we are still sinners and if you say otherwise, the Bible says you are deceiving yourself.
Catholics and mike and many others here have personally said they are not saved yet and only are saved after death, when it is to late to change. Tis all means that every pope, cardinal, ´catholic bishops, priests ,nuns, and monks and catholic teachers are all not saved and are sinners, and say they are humble to stay that low and unworthy! What a shame , and a double drop kick in Jesus face, and a enemie to the blood of Christ and the cross! But I think my obsevation on this denial of the truthgospel and the grace of God toward us which Jesus finished on the cross has been void by a invented purgatory as some back up invention after death, because of a plan if a catholic was not saved they can get saved in a purgatory, which is not biblical! the bible say after death the judgement not a purgatory! Heb:9:22: And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.Heb:9:23: It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. Heb:9:24: For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:Heb:9:25: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; Heb:9:26: For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.Heb:9:27: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:Heb:9:28: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. peace I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 08/13/2012 06:59:13
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Fifth Member
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Thank you for this thread.
The fact that you are shocked means you have started talking about the Catholic Church without having a clue about its teachings.
Now, I give you a few minutes (or even an hour) to bring your shock under control or to go see a doctor and then answer the following question:
1. How does the dictionary define the word "sinner"?
2. Do you sin or are you without sin?
3. If believers are no longer sinners why did Jesus teach His disciples to pray thus: "forgive us our trespasses ..."?
You answer to those question will get the ball rolling ... talking long but saying nothing new will not solve your problem; and your problem is your attempts to make the Bible contradict the Bible by focusing of few verses while ignoring others.
You have started this thread and you will now have to answer those specific questions or admit you have no answers.
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I'm just baffled that any Christian could think they are no longer sinners. :/
There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church. -Archbishop Sheen
... you should know that there is present with you the angel whom God has appointed for each man… This angel, who is sleepless and cannot be deceived, is always present with you; he sees all things and is not hindered by darkness. You should know, too, that with him is God. -St. Anthony the Great
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quote:
Originally posted by LuminousPax
I'm just baffled that any Christian could think they are no longer sinners. :/
Not only that ... they also believe that all their future sins are already forgiven. In other words, repentance is just a formality that is not really needed.
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Out of all the Protestants that I know, only the ones on this forum would ever deny being sinners. Craziness. I guess in evan's eyes, these born-again Christians aren't saved.
Either way, this is nonsense. A sinner is a person who sins. That's the dictionary definition of the term, and it correlates to common sense. Theologically defined, a sinner is one who sins without repentance.
For instance, I am not a sinner in the same sense as a heathen or unbeliever. But I am a sinner according to the dictionary definition of the term. I do still have need for my Savior. I did not rub the Bible like a genie lamp and wish I wouldn't go to hell, then voila! Case closed.
Evan, that you deny the need to repent proves that you are actually more of a sinner than Catholics who admit they aren't perfect.
I have personally discovered your claims about salvation to be fallacies, and I know of many others who have converted to Catholicism from non-Catholic Christian faiths for the same reason. The truth knows no bounds, and preexisting man-made traditions, it comes out in the end. Osas (either perceived as partial truth or the truth and nothing but the truth) is a lie of the devil.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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By sining a person turns their back to God and follows their own personal will and not His will.
Acts 3:19 - Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
God knows we fail. He tells us in the bible what we need to do to walk the narrow path and become closer to Him.
I know what I'm saying isn't anything new. I'm just so surprised that anyone could ever believe this. I can't think of any practicing Christians that don't ask Christ to forgive them for their sins - often.
I'm new and have read some of the history and I'm curious. Do they attend church on Sundays? I just have a hard time believing that people who are Christ centered can be so antagonistic and uncharitable.
There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church. -Archbishop Sheen
... you should know that there is present with you the angel whom God has appointed for each man… This angel, who is sleepless and cannot be deceived, is always present with you; he sees all things and is not hindered by darkness. You should know, too, that with him is God. -St. Anthony the Great
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
quote:
Originally posted by LuminousPax
I'm just baffled that any Christian could think they are no longer sinners. :/
Not only that ... they also believe that all their future sins are already forgiven. In other words, repentance is just a formality that is not really needed.
Not only that... Evangelist has a third-person-removed belief about his "born again (s)pirit" that can not sin AND there is only one sin that is mortal to the soul.
Oh, and the New Testament for Evangelist begins after Christ's Resurrection, and therefore all that Christ spoke prior to that...(all that very pointed talk of His about the consequences of sin and unrepentant sin) was only to the Jews.
Which, is very very convenient for the OSAS crowd...except for that pesky Resurrected Christ coming back to His Apostles in the Upper Room in which He delegated His authority to them to either "hold sin bound" or "forgive" it.
Evangelist still can not answer why that New Testament Christ did such a thing to His OSAS Christians.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 08/13/2012 14:42:16
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Still waiting for proof that you are saved Evan. It's pointless making vain accusation against good catholic people when you cannot even prove your own salvation. My thought is that you will probably end up not really saved to begin with one day when you find that you placed your faith in a false conspiracy instead of jesus.
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I have to say, I can understand at some level why people believe it - not biblically - but from a human nature perspective. Hell is a scary place. I can see why people would like to hold onto the idea of a free pass.
Scripture; however, doesn't support this.
There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church. -Archbishop Sheen
... you should know that there is present with you the angel whom God has appointed for each man… This angel, who is sleepless and cannot be deceived, is always present with you; he sees all things and is not hindered by darkness. You should know, too, that with him is God. -St. Anthony the Great
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quote:
the bible say after death the judgement not a purgatory!
Do you believe God will judge you? Why is there a judgement if OSAS?
As Catholics, we believe we will judged - either to enter Heaven or be damned to Hell. There is already a purgatory thread... No need to explain that here.
There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church. -Archbishop Sheen
... you should know that there is present with you the angel whom God has appointed for each man… This angel, who is sleepless and cannot be deceived, is always present with you; he sees all things and is not hindered by darkness. You should know, too, that with him is God. -St. Anthony the Great
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Evangelist is hedging his soul's salvation on invincible ignorance of (Jewish) New Testament Scripture. As insurance he's also using Calvin's OSAS as plan B.
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
Still waiting for proof that you are saved Evan. It's pointless making vain accusation against good catholic people when you cannot even prove your own salvation. My thought is that you will probably end up not really saved to begin with one day when you find that you placed your faith in a false conspiracy instead of jesus.
Oh, but he will say to Him on that day...
"Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?"
I fear for him and g4 both... if we're going to hell, then they better pray there is a purgatory.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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Fifth Member
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quote:
Originally posted by LuminousPax
quote:
the bible say after death the judgement not a purgatory!
Do you believe God will judge you? Why is there a judgement if OSAS?
As Catholics, we believe we will judged - either to enter Heaven or be damned to Hell. There is already a purgatory thread... No need to explain that here.
What I discovered is that people like Evangelist started making accusations without first try to learn what Catholics really believe. He thinks Catholics belive in Purgatory instead of judgement.
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quote:
Originally posted by LuminousPax
quote:
the bible say after death the judgement not a purgatory!
Do you believe God will judge you? Why is there a judgement if OSAS?
As Catholics, we believe we will judged - either to enter Heaven or be damned to Hell. There is already a purgatory thread... No need to explain that here.
catholics will be judged and enter hell, As you'll find out.
Jesus has already taken the Christians judgement and we go staight to heaven.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
Thank you for this thread.
Quote Evangelist:
Your very welcome!
The fact that you are shocked means you have started talking about the Catholic Church without having a clue about its teachings.
Quote Evangelist:
NO! It is the reading of what catholic have stated and quoted from the horses mouth which I am shocked, and the personal witness of what you believe , and what you call yourselves, that shocked me and even as I shown my family and many here what you guys quoted and believe!
We all a matter of fact are very   !
If I have though such a thing, and wrote what you guy believe , and confess you still are and confess you are still not saved would be a complete different story and for sure they and others would say I am passing false judgement and neet quickly to repent, but this is no way the case or great issue at large!
It is your open confession as catholics here!
Now, I give you a few minutes (or even an hour) to bring your shock under control or to go see a doctor and then answer the following question:
1. How does the dictionary define the word "sinner"?
Quote Evangelist:
That is not the bible and the whole truth, and if I ask you the same question on other words like what is a church you would say the dictionary is wrong, and your vatican is right so let stick to the bible ok?
2. Do you sin or are you without sin?
Quote Evangelist:
With my mind and body yes I sin, but with my born again spirit which is from God can't sin and doesn't never sin, it is like Jesus is in heaven!
1Jo:3:9: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
3. If believers are no longer sinners why did Jesus teach His disciples to pray thus: "forgive us our trespasses ..."?
Quote Evangelist:
Because they were under the old testament covenant, and hadto do sacrafice and offering to get those sins forgiven, because blood always has to be used to clean all that sin away!
If jesus didn't die yet at that time the once offering and sacrafice was not there to forgive all future and sins once and for all times so it had to be done over and over again, read Hebrews 9, and 10!
You answer to those question will get the ball rolling ... talking long but saying nothing new will not solve your problem; and your problem is your attempts to make the Bible contradict the Bible by focusing of few verses while ignoring others.
You have started this thread and you will now have to answer those specific questions or admit you have no answers.
I have just as many answers as questions, but the problem is how to deal with you and your church on this biblical is a big issue!
sence i know now for sure with your confessions that you are not saved now and that you are still sinners until death do you part, it is a complecated mission!
It is like I am trying to teach a demonic religious demon how to get saved and stop being a demon as such, using the bible against this demon to help see the truth of the bible, when itself confess they want to remain a demon and not convert to getting saved and being justified and become an angel of the Lord!
Do you see the issue?
Also please don't twist what I am saying to you as thinking I am calling you a demon, it is only a analogy but sort of in the same conditions going according to your confession of none faith as a sinner and not being once saved until your dead!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by LuminousPax
I'm just baffled that any Christian could think they are no longer sinners. :/
Do you believe and think that a christian can be only righteous without being a sinner according to the switch plan and gospel Jesus did for us?
2Co:5:21: For he hath made him(Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
When I first got the real revelation knowledge of this one verse which goes with many like in Romans 5, it blew my religious philosophy ,away, and I was so set free and full of joy i wanted to tear my room apart with joy of seeing the love of God for myself toward me to be no more condemned if I sinned!wwwwoooowww! 
From that do on I callmyself MR righteous evangelist!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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