proof that catholic are still sinner and not Saved
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I am starting this thread because I am still shocked to see that catholic and the catholic church still see's themselves as catholic sinners not saved now by grace and faith!Quote by kamati quote:Yes, we are still sinners and if you say otherwise, the Bible says you are more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 08/13/2012 06:59:13
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Fifth Member
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
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Originally posted by God4me
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Originally posted by LuminousPax
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the bible say after death the judgement not a purgatory!
Do you believe God will judge you? Why is there a judgement if OSAS?
As Catholics, we believe we will judged - either to enter Heaven or be damned to Hell. There is already a purgatory thread... No need to explain that here.
catholics will be judged and enter hell, As you'll find out.
Jesus has already taken the Christians judgement and we go staight to heaven.
I must agree with you on this one G4!
But my judgement is just because of thier own confession as not being saved and still a sinner which anyone who is not saved is condemned already says the bible and we all know all sinners have their place in the lake if fire!
A sorry Case closed!
Shalom G4
You can deceive youself as much as you like but you are not saved; you are in the porcess of being saved -- a process that started with your conversion and that continues your entire life and, if you endure to the end, then you will finally be saved.
There is no such a thing a human being being a sinner in the past tense. You are still a sinner and if you insist you are no longer a sinner then you have to admit that you no longer need Christ because, like Jesus said, only the sick need a physician.
Writing to Timothy, Paul described himself as a sinner (in the presaent tense, not the past tense). If believesr are no longer sinners then Paul did not know that, or maybe he was not a believer like you.
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Fifth Member
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Do you have children Kamati??
Yes, I have six beautiful, believing, obedient children and one grandchild!
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Originally posted by evangelist
then use your philosophy on your kids if you have any or if not ask another family who has kids and they love thier children how would they treat them when they disobeyed or sinned against them, and should they beg them for forgiveness!
please do that!
I suppose you posted before reading my post saying your biological analogy won’t work in the spiritual realm.
This is also becoming strange that I am now supposed to ignore what the Bible says and rather depend on my philosophy and Evangelist’s analogy.
The Bible says those believers who commit sin have to repent, if not, they would be cut off. That is what the Bible says and that is what seems to irritate you ... I suspect I know why!
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Originally posted by evangelist
You can't get bye or understand justification do you?
I think I do understand justification, and even if I don’t, I can go to the Church for explanation. I suppose you know that Jesus left us His Church to teach faith and morals.
And the Church's teaching is readily available here: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm
Or did Jesus, in the meantime,appoint you as an infallible teacher replacing His Church?
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
It mean a just as if you never sinned before God!
That is above your carnal brain to recieve that spiritual gospel message!
Ah, I see! All I have to do to receive that spiritual gospel message is to agree with you. The spiritual gospel is now conditional on agreeing with what evangelist says. LOL
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Fifth Member
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Fifth Member
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quote:
I know you don't believe the bible as all truth and don't accept all of Paul teaching, like these scripture explained so clearly, but you were shown this truth by me and a word to you from the Holy Ghost to show you some truth you reject!
When you stand before God at least you can't say you never knew!
Give me a break, evan. I believe every word in the Bible, and I accept Paul's teachings, including the sacramental teachings which you turn a blind eye to and reject.
The Holy Spirit has shown me truth, and sorry, but I accept it over the heretical "gospel according to evangelist".
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
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Originally posted by evangelist
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Originally posted by God4me
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Originally posted by LuminousPax
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the bible say after death the judgement not a purgatory!
Do you believe God will judge you? Why is there a judgement if OSAS?
As Catholics, we believe we will judged - either to enter Heaven or be damned to Hell. There is already a purgatory thread... No need to explain that here.
catholics will be judged and enter hell, As you'll find out.
Jesus has already taken the Christians judgement and we go staight to heaven.
I must agree with you on this one G4!
But my judgement is just because of thier own confession as not being saved and still a sinner which anyone who is not saved is condemned already says the bible and we all know all sinners have their place in the lake if fire!
A sorry Case closed!
Shalom G4
You can deceive youself as much as you like but you are not saved; you are in the porcess of being saved -- a process that started with your conversion and that continues your entire life and, if you endure to the end, then you will finally be saved.
There is no such a thing a human being being a sinner in the past tense. You are still a sinner and if you insist you are no longer a sinner then you have to admit that you no longer need Christ because, like Jesus said, only the sick need a physician.
Writing to Timothy, Paul described himself as a sinner (in the presaent tense, not the past tense). If believesr are no longer sinners then Paul did not know that, or maybe he was not a believer like you.
So the grace only works after you are dead then the bible become truth you are saved after death by grace ?
So why a need for a purgatory when grace saves you when you are dead?
How does a person enjoy the grace and be able to thank the gift of grace to salvation when your dead?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Location: Germany
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
quote:
I know you don't believe the bible as all truth and don't accept all of Paul teaching, like these scripture explained so clearly, but you were shown this truth by me and a word to you from the Holy Ghost to show you some truth you reject!
When you stand before God at least you can't say you never knew!
Give me a break, evan. I believe every word in the Bible, and I accept Paul's teachings, including the sacramental teachings which you turn a blind eye to and reject.
The Holy Spirit has shown me truth, and sorry, but I accept it over the heretical "gospel according to evangelist".
I think it was the strange spirit of religion that you are believing!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Member since 07/10/2003
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Let me ask a important question while I am here.
Is your poes and leaders still a sinner, and all not saved as well, and only after they die they get saved by grace and a purgatory??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
Sex with stepmother?
Is that a sin mortal to the soul or did Christ already absolve that sin from the cross, allowing that Baptised man to continue in his actions, unrepentant?
And if he is "saved" then why on earth was St. Paul so keen on having him physically removed from the Church?
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
Sex with stepmother?
Is that a sin mortal to the soul or did Christ already absolve that sin from the cross, allowing that Baptised man to continue in his actions, unrepentant?
And if he is "saved" then why on earth was St. Paul so keen on having him physically removed from the Church?
Because it a bad witness before man!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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New Member
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Member since 08/07/2012
quote:
Let me ask a important question while I am here.
Is your poes and leaders still a sinner, and all not saved as well, and only after they die they get saved by grace and a purgatory.
Our Pope, priests and even me have completed the Rite of Initiation. Our judgment in the end is Heaven or Hell. You have been given numerous verses of scripture that explain how nothing unclean will enter heaven. I'm not sure why you're making comments about being saved by purgatory. This is very simple - We believe our judgement is heaven or hell.
The New Testament writings discussing sin were written to communities of "saved" Christians. So if simply making a profession of Faith were all that were necessary and one couldn't lose their salvation, it would have been ridiculous for the New Testament writers to caution the faithful to avoid further sinful behavior.
There are not more than 100 people in the world who truly hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they perceive to be the Catholic Church. -Archbishop Sheen
... you should know that there is present with you the angel whom God has appointed for each man… This angel, who is sleepless and cannot be deceived, is always present with you; he sees all things and is not hindered by darkness. You should know, too, that with him is God. -St. Anthony the Great
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Fifth Member
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Location: Namibia
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
It was forgiven long time ago and God said He remember them no more so why do you want to remember then and be under condemnation?
Oh I think I know so you can remain a sinner!
Evangelist you are denying reality to protect the reputation of the one who deceived you. You yourself know by now that what you are saying is nonsense. If a believer's future sins are already forgiven why is he asked to repent under pain of being cut off?
The Bible says a believer who sins and does not repent will be cut off; you say no, the Bible is wrong, the believer will never be cut off; but you also say you do not believe in OSAS.
In a word: you are confused.
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Fifth Member
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Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
Sex with stepmother?
Is that a sin mortal to the soul or did Christ already absolve that sin from the cross, allowing that Baptised man to continue in his actions, unrepentant?
And if he is "saved" then why on earth was St. Paul so keen on having him physically removed from the Church?
Because it a bad witness before man!
one love
In other words the problem is not the sin itself but because it became public and was becoming a bad witness before men. If Evangelist commited such a sin secretly then every thing is just okay, no need to repent because nobody knows it and is therefore no bad witness before men. Evangelist is actually teaching us that wheneever we sin we should make sure our sins remain secret as not to become a bad witness to men, then life goes on. No need to repent; we are already saved.
Evangelist's kind of Christianity challenges one to make a choice: either convert to Catholicism or become an atheist.
A kind of Christianity where, after accepting Jesus, there is only one sin that one has to avoid is actually a very easy kind of Christianity that can not be said to be a small gate and narrow path. That is rather a wide gate and broad path that leads to hell.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
It was forgiven long time ago and God said He remember them no more so why do you want to remember then and be under condemnation?
Oh I think I know so you can remain a sinner!
Evangelist you are denying reality to protect the reputation of the one who deceived you. You yourself know by now that what you are saying is nonsense. If a believer's future sins are already forgiven why is he asked to repent under pain of being cut off?
The Bible says a believer who sins and does not repent will be cut off; you say no, the Bible is wrong, the believer will never be cut off; but you also say you do not believe in OSAS.
In a word: you are confused.
Who cuts that person off when they sin?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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