EVANGELIST VS RELIGION
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
Hi Evangelist and others,
I can see you are against religion, but can you people please show where the Bible rejects religion.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
Hi Evangelist and others,
I can see you are against religion, but can you people please show where the Bible rejects religion.
SURE!
I let the bible and Jesus show you your religion and churchy CC how it is in Jesus eyes, so you can continue this thread with a debate with your religion VS jesus the >Holy Spirit God and with me ok?
Here we GO, this is for you and your CC!
M't:23:1: Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
M't:23:2: Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
M't:23:3: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
M't:23:4: For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
M't:23:5: But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
M't:23:6: And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
M't:23:7: And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
M't:23:8: But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
M't:23:9: And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
M't:23:10: Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
M't:23:11: But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
M't:23:12: And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
M't:23:13: But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
M't:23:14: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
M't:23:15: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
M't:23:16: Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
M't:23:17: Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
M't:23:18: And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
M't:23:19: Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
M't:23:20: Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
M't:23:21: And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
M't:23:22: And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
M't:23:23: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
M't:23:24: Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
M't:23:25: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
M't:23:26: Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
M't:23:27: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
M't:23:28: Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
M't:23:29: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
M't:23:30: And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
M't:23:31: Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
M't:23:32: Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
M't:23:33: Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
M't:23:34: Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
AMEN!
one love
Evangelist!
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
What else must I do to make you understand my question? I asked specifically where the Bible rejects religion, not where the Bible condemns those who abuse religion. The Pharisees were hypocrites. That we all know.
I asked you to tell me where the Bible rejects religion, but all you presented is a text that condemns those who abuse religion for their selfish ends.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
What else must I do to make you understand my question? I asked specifically where the Bible rejects religion, not where the Bible condemns those who abuse religion. The Pharisees were hypocrites. That we all know.
I asked you to tell me where the Bible rejects religion, but all you presented is a text that condemns those who abuse religion for their selfish ends.
Don't you know those pharisees were people of religion and Jesus rejected them and thier way of presenting religion at large?
thier no difference in what religion is doing today just today they have different names like JW,Catholics, mormons,Islam , buddah and etc
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Don't you know those pharisees were people of religion and Jesus rejected them and thier way of presenting religion at large?
I am now sitting here and asking myself: who blinded this person calling himself Evangelist? In his own words Jesus rejected their way of presenting religion. In other words, Jesus did not reject religion as such; He rejected them and their way of presenting religion at large. Those are Evangelist’s own words, yet he does not even see that what he is posting contradicts the point he is trying to argue.
For instance, when you reject those who twist the Bible it does not mean you reject the Bible. In the same manner, rejecting those who abuse religion does not equal rejecting religion.
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
thier no difference in what religion is doing today just today they have different names like JW,Catholics, mormons,Islam , buddah and etc
Okay, I grant you the point that even today there are people abusing religion for their own selfish motives. Abusers are everywhere. Even the Bible is abused, but we do not judge a belief or a system based on those who abuse it, otherwise we would have to abandon even the Bible because it is being abused.
So, because you have not yet shown where the Bible rejects or condemns religion, I give you one more chance to try, after which I will have to give you a FAIL mark.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
Religion has a strange spirit behind it!
It is decpetive and makes so many leaglized and self righteous, and condemned!
The mission of the religious spirit is to:
Infiltrate your life
Bind your freedom
Steal your liberty in the Holy Spirit
Stop your advancement
Ruin your true Christian witness
Buffet the progress of the Gospel
Corrupt your perception of Who Jesus is.
“Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world” (James 1:26-27).
The Lord would not have us ignorant to the spirit of religion. The Bible gives us many examples of the operations of religious spirits throughout the Word including:
The scribes and Pharisees were ready to stone the woman who was caught in the act of adultery, yet there was no mention of stoning the man who was with her (John 8).
Apostle Peter and Barnabas would not sit and eat with the Gentile believers in Antioch when Jewish brothers came to visit from Jerusalem (Galatians 2:11-13).
The scribes and Pharisees challenged Jesus because His disciples did not wash their hands (ceremonially) before they ate (Matthew 15:2).
Jesus taught His disciples not to pray long prayers like the scribes, who prayed only for show (Luke 20:46-47).
Saul guarded the garments of religious murderers as they stoned a righteous man named Stephen to death (Acts 7:58).
After a notable miracle, a religious council, motivated by fear, reprimanded the Apostles Peter and John for speaking the name of Jesus (Acts 4:15-18).
When Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath it so stirred up those with religious spirits they sought to kill Him (Mark 3:1-6).
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
Dear Evangelist,
With all respect I have to say you are blind and it can only be an evil spirit that has blinded you to the truth. Even when the truth is squarely before you, you do not see it.
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Religion has a strange spirit behind it!
Okay, let us hear more.
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
It is decpetive and makes so many leaglized and self righteous, and condemned!
What about self righteous people like you? Should we still blame religion for that?
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
The mission of the religious spirit is to:
Infiltrate your life
Bind your freedom
Steal your liberty in the Holy Spirit
Stop your advancement
Ruin your true Christian witness
Buffet the progress of the Gospel
Corrupt your perception of Who Jesus is.
“Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world” (James 1:26-27).
You just passed over it without seeing it. Did you see the phrase “pure religion”? If yes, what is your comment?
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
The Lord would not have us ignorant to the spirit of religion. The Bible gives us many examples of the operations of religious spirits throughout the Word including:
The scribes and Pharisees were ready to stone the woman who was caught in the act of adultery, yet there was no mention of stoning the man who was with her (John 8).
Those are people abusing the system. Both the man and woman were supposed to be stoned: "If a man is found sleeping with another man's wife, both the man who slept with her and the woman must die." (Deuteronomy 22:22)
You look at the abuse and conclude the whole thing is bad. But sensible people know that abuse of the system does not mean the system itself should be rejected.
You can surf the bible from genesis to revelation, but you will not find one word spoken about religion. That much I know.
So, your long post was a lot of talk while basically saying nothing. You did not show where the Bible rejects religion; you have shown where the Bible condemns hypocrites who abuse religion for their own selfish ends.
And I will give you no more grace period. I have to give you the FAIL mark.
And here is why: whenever you place religion in a very negative light you never once qualified your statements, for example, to distinguish between impure and pure religion. You tried to create an impression that religion as a whole is bad and should be avoided.
But that is contrary to what the Bible says.
Your religion taught you that religion is something bad, and when the bible talks about pure religion you simply don’t care.
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Apostle Peter and Barnabas would not sit and eat with the Gentile believers in Antioch when Jewish brothers came to visit from Jerusalem (Galatians 2:11-13).
That was hypocrisy ... preaching one thing and doing a totally different thing! When Paul castigated Peter he did not condemn religion; he condemned Peter’s hypocrisy.
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
The scribes and Pharisees challenged Jesus because His disciples did not wash their hands (ceremonially) before they ate (Matthew 15:2).
Those were traditions of the elders, not religion.
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Jesus taught His disciples not to pray long prayers like the scribes, who prayed only for show (Luke 20:46-47).
That was abuse of the system for selfish ends ... they prayed long because they wanted to be seen. And I have news for you: where I am, we see Pentecostals doing the same at street corners; I have even witnessed one who prayed loudly for the duration of a soccer match, that is 45+15+45 minutes but his team lost nonetheless and he went home crying. I never accuse Pentecostals for this; I know this former Lutheran simply wanted to show us that he is now “born again”. Abuse can happen any where, even in your backyard.
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Saul guarded the garments of religious murderers as they stoned a righteous man named Stephen to death (Acts 7:58).
That was because, according to the Old Testament laws, blasphemy was punishable with death. If you want to accuse, accuse the Old Testament laws:
“Tell the Israelites: Anyone who blasphemes God shall bear the penalty; 16whoever utters the name of the LORD in a curse shall be put to death. The whole community shall stone that person; alien and native-born alike must be put to death for uttering the LORD’s name in a curse.” (Leviticus 24:15-16)
We know that those who stoned Stephen acted wrongly, but they thought that Stephen was blaspheming God and blasphemy was punishable with death.
Bad decision maybe or perhaps an erroneous understanding; but that says nothing about religion.
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
After a notable miracle, a religious council, motivated by fear, reprimanded the Apostles Peter and John for speaking the name of Jesus (Acts 4:15-18).
That is what I said: abusing the system for selfish ends; they were afraid of losing their positions and that says nothing about religion per se.
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
When Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath it so stirred up those with religious spirits they sought to kill Him (Mark 3:1-6).
That was because the Old Testament law prescribed death for any one who violates the Sabbath. You will either blame God himself for giving such laws or agree with me that a system can be abused or misunderstood.
There can also be bad decisions and this says nothing about religion. It rather says something about human beings.
Now, do you at least admit there is something called pure religion? And do you reject this as well?
If not, then next time qualify your statements. Do not reject religion; reject bad or impure religion. That is my advice and you are free to ignore it.
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Fourth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/26/2008
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
What else must I do to make you understand my question? I asked specifically where the Bible rejects religion, not where the Bible condemns those who abuse religion. The Pharisees were hypocrites. That we all know.
I asked you to tell me where the Bible rejects religion, but all you presented is a text that condemns those who abuse religion for their selfish ends.
Don't you know those pharisees were people of religion and Jesus rejected them and thier way of presenting religion at large?
thier no difference in what religion is doing today just today they have different names like JW,Catholics, mormons,Islam , buddah and etc
one love
You are projecting your false Protestantism understanding on to the Catholic Church. Protestants are protesting their self created understanding of "religion" then they project it on to the Catholic Church. Protestants waste their entire lives away protesting a projection.
If the Catholic Church taught what Protestants say it does even I would be against it.
Protestants are protesting like a false scenario of the Catholic Church.
Protestants refuse to understand the actual Catholic Church because it would ruin the false scenario that they are protesting.
Protestantism has created their own definition of what "religion" means then they project it on the Catholic Church.
Through bigotry prejudices false assumptions & false premises Protestants are protesting a catholic church made up by Protestantism that does not actually exist.
Edited by michael on 08/14/2012 10:11:07
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 10/13/2007
Location: USA
evan, Jesus rebuked them for their hypocrisy. There is hypocrisy in your churchy, too.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
Hi Evangelist,
I will not allow you to play double standards here. If wrongdoing by religious people is a sign that religion is evil, then wrongdoing by Christians must be a sign that Christianity is evil. You can play double standards elsewhere, not here. Here you will be exposed.
Take the Corinthians church, made up of tongues speaking, born again Christians, but here is what happens there:
1. Divisions
2. personality cults
3. Cliques
4. Carnality
5. Sexual perversion
6. Fornication
7. Incest
8. Adultery
9. Pride
10. Worldliness/materialism
11. Church members taking one another to court
12. Rebellion against apostolic authority
13. Failure to discipline sinning members
14. Failure to properly observe the Lord's Supper
15. Heresies concerning the resurrection
Now tell me: with all those vices in mind, do you think that Christians and Christianity should be rejected?
No, I know that is not what you think ... the criteria you use against religion was designed for the exclusive use against religion. Am I right?
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
I know by now that you are hard-hearted; otherwise I would have told you that Jesus himself was a very religious Jew who went to the Temple, participated in the feasts and holy days, followed the spirit of the law of Moses and who spoke out against the corruption and the hypocrisy of the Sadducees and Pharisees, who preached one thing and did another.
I know you will simply ignore all that. But what about this:
1 Timothy 5:4
But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God.
James 1:26-27
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, his religion is vain.27
Religion that is pure and undefiled before God and the Father is this:to care for orphans and widows* in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
There we see vain religion as opposed to religion that is pure and pleasing to God.
However, in your posts you reject any kind of religion. You do not even accept religion that is pure and not vain. In other words you, in your malice, you reject even that what is said to be pleasing to God, in short: you reject God Himself.
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- -1209reputation
- 6728 Posts
Member since 03/06/2010
Location: United Kingdom
quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
Hi Evangelist and others,
I can see you are against religion, but can you people please show where the Bible rejects religion.
If you knew the Bible, [Which you don't], You would know that Jesus came against the religious people.
You claim to be the true Church but you don't know the truth, So much for you being the true Church.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
Dear Evangelist,
With all respect I have to say you are blind and it can only be an evil spirit that has blinded you to the truth. Even when the truth is squarely before you, you do not see it.
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Religion has a strange spirit behind it!
Okay, let us hear more.
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
It is decpetive and makes so many leaglized and self righteous, and condemned!
What about self righteous people like you? Should we still blame religion for that?
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
The mission of the religious spirit is to:
Infiltrate your life
Bind your freedom
steal your liberty from the holy spirit
Stop your advancement
Ruin your true Christian witness
Buffet the progress of the Gospel
Corrupt your perception of Who Jesus is.
“Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world” (James 1:26-27).
You just passed over it without seeing it. Did you see the phrase “pure religion”? If yes, what is your comment?
Don't you know that being unspotted from the world is not being a sinner, and being saved now?
Don't you beieive being and not getting is being righteous, and saved now is undefiled before God?
You read a verse but your mind is twisted in not seeing all the revelation of what a scripture is really saying.
No wonder the bible can't be your final authority, and your church teaches sola scripture is a false doctrine which your churchy is making the bible a dead book instead of a living book of truth and is a true mirror to our born again spirits in who we are in Christ, and not who we are as a unsaved sinner as your religion confesses!
A sinner can not understand the spiritual truth of the bible , and that why I don't like to show religious demons bible scriptures which you ask me to show and prove!
Religion as you have it is opposed and makes light of the true gospel, and blinds your freedom and steal your liberty from the holy spirit!
Your CC religion is full of demonic spirit of legalism and condemnation to a point of calling yourself a sinner and unsaved now and made light of God will and redemption plan for a zoe life which is a awesome too good life explained in greek word Zoe life.
Nothing missing and nothing broken like not being saved is missing and to be a broken sinner is the worst demonic slavery to damnation!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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