EVANGELIST AND JOHN 3 VERSE 16
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
You need to really ask the Holy spirit to reveal what John 3:16 really means to you!
1. Jesus left us teachers who teach in His name; with His authority; guided by the Holy Spirit. Deny that and you deny the Bible! 2. Jesus-appointed teachers are perfectly able to tell me what John 3:16 means because Jesus is with them always and the Holy Spirit guides them to the whole truth. 3. The only reason why you might not have those facts is because you keep turning your itching ears to deceivers. 4. John 3:16 means what it says, namely that "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life." 5. Believing “in Him” includes observing all that Jesus commanded.(Matthew 28:19-20) ... 6. Lo and behold, that is exactly what you reject. 7. You pretend to believe “in Him” but you fail to observe all He commanded; in other words you do not really believe “in Him”. 8. Even when you go around boasting of believing "in Him", we know that in practice you reject Him.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
You need to really ask the Holy spirit to reveal what John 3:16 really means to you!
1. Jesus left us teachers who teach in His name; with His authority; guided by the Holy Spirit. Deny that and you deny the Bible!
2. Jesus-appointed teachers are perfectly able to tell me what John 3:16 means because Jesus is with them always and the Holy Spirit guides them to the whole truth.
3. The only reason why you might not have those facts is because you keep turning your itching ears to deceivers.
4. John 3:16 means what it says, namely that "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life."
5. Believing “in Him” includes observing all that Jesus commanded.(Matthew 28:19-20) ...
6. Lo and behold, that is exactly what you reject.
7. You pretend to believe “in Him” but you fail to observe all He commanded; in other words you do not really believe “in Him”.
8. Even when you go around boasting of believing "in Him", we know that in practice you reject Him.
[1]You said.
[Quote]
1. Jesus left us teachers who teach in His name; with His authority; guided by the Holy Spirit. Deny that and you deny the Bible!
2. Jesus-appointed teachers are perfectly able to tell me what John 3:16 means because Jesus is with them always and the Holy Spirit guides them to the whole truth.
[End quote].
I take it you are talking about Christians..
[2]You said.
[Quote].
The only reason why you might not have those facts is because you keep turning your itching ears to deceivers.
Lo and behold, that is exactly what you reject.
7. You pretend to believe “in Him” but you fail to observe all He commanded; in other words you do not really believe “in Him”.
8. Even when you go around boasting of believing "in Him", we know that in practice you reject Him.
[End quote].
I take it you are talking about catholics.
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Catholics are Christians g whiz. Kamati was pretty clear who she was addressing in her post so stop trying to manipulate.
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Fifth Member
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Ironically, Evan takes the words of his heretical leaders as the infallible words of God, yet he rejects the authority which Christ established. He and g4 are both under some kind of delusion that they, like their televangelist heroes, are not religious at all. They think being religious means "wearing priestly robes and hats". So, as long as their preachers wear suits and snakeskin boots, they aren't religious.
Personally, I find #5 inarguable. I can see why Protestants may be compelled to resist the authority of Catholic teachers based on their interpretations of Scripture, but to resist obeying all that Jesus commanded? That makes no sense.
If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
As Kamati pointed out, the leaders of our religion teach us to do just that, as they were commanded by Christ. Perhaps you need to give it another look and see why Christ would have delegated them to do so.
Though I once fell for the whole "believing in Jesus merely means believing he died for your sins" fallacy, I now view it as an error with generally good intentions behind it. But I do not see how any honest, seeking Christian can think that believing in Jesus is limited to just that.
It's common sense. When kids believe in Santa Claus, they know that they must meet his requirements of "being good" in order to get their gifts from him. Before evan comes in here and accuses me, no, I am not comparing Santa to God. The gifts of the Spirit are free and are by no merit of our own. Again, this is all just common sense. If you believe in something or someone, you believe in all of them, not just the parts about them that make you all warm and fuzzy inside. That is selfish.
God is a God of covenants, and though he will never break his promise to us, there are circumstances to our neglecting to meet our side of the bargain.
As James points out, even the demons believe in the same sense that evangelist does. That does not guarantee him a spot in heaven. Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats. Period. No ifs, ands or buts about it. It's a hard and often overlooked truth, but it is truth, nonetheless. No matter how hard evan and others attempt to build up this fantasy world around it, all myth eventually melts away in the light of truth, which will always prevail.
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' (Matthew 7:22)
The people who say this obviously have faith. They believe in Jesus, and they even performed works in his name, but that's not enough. It reminds me of the Parable of the Wedding Banquet:
Matthew 22:1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’
5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ The man was speechless.
13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
What is the "wedding garment"? Is it faith? Evan may argue that it is, but I beg to differ. The people who accept the wedding invitation obviously have faith, or else, they would not have accepted.
Faith without works is dead, and so are works without faith. In Matthew 7:22, they had both. Hence, my position that we are saved by grace alone, through faith and works done in charity. We can not force ourselves to have faith or to love, and to thus, genuinely give. It must be Christ working through us as we are inspired by the Holy Spirit, and we must cooperate with his grace.
Evan, you have been shown where Jesus says to obey his commandments. Care to offer me one where he says we can commit any sin we want as long as it is kept secret? Since you said that, I have been a little disturbed, and I would like some clarification.
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
Edited by acumenCry on 08/16/2012 21:18:15
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Fifth Member
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[1]You said.
quote:
1. Jesus left us teachers who teach in His name; with His authority; guided by the Holy Spirit. Deny that and you deny the Bible!
2. Jesus-appointed teachers are perfectly able to tell me what John 3:16 means because Jesus is with them always and the Holy Spirit guides them to the whole truth.
[End quote].
I take it you are talking about Christians..
Yes, I am talking about Catholic Christians. They are the only ones led by Christ-appointed teachers. On the contrary, you are led by self-appointed teachers (i.e. false teachers) who have no connection with the original Church whatsoever. And that is here where church history comes in; and that is here where you forced to rely on fabricated stories.
[quote]Originally posted by God4me
[2]You said.
[Quote].
The only reason why you might not have those facts is because you keep turning your itching ears to deceivers.
Lo and behold, that is exactly what you reject.
7. You pretend to believe “in Him” but you fail to observe all He commanded; in other words you do not really believe “in Him”.
8. Even when you go around boasting of believing "in Him", we know that in practice you reject Him.
[End quote].
I take it you are talking about catholics.
No, here I am talking about you guys. You claim to believe "in Him" but you don't. You refuse to listern to His Church and according to the Bible, you are in the same category with gentiles and tax collectors:
"If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector" (Matthew 18:17)
Your very last option now is to claim that Matthew 18:17 refers to your church, but history refutes you. Your church did not exist before 1900. You know this, but try by all means to fabricate a false history, acting more like a lawyer defending a confessed murderer and trying to prove that his client is actually not guilty.
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
Catholics are Christians g whiz. Kamati was pretty clear who she was addressing in her post so stop trying to manipulate.
catholics aren't Christians, STOP TELLING LIES.
Just because you have lost any chance of getting to heaven, You dont have to deceive catholics into believing they are Christians.
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quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Ironically, Evan takes the words of his heretical leaders as the infallible words of God, yet he rejects the authority which Christ established. He and g4 are both under some kind of delusion that they, like their televangelist heroes, are not religious at all. They think being religious means "wearing priestly robes and hats". So, as long as their preachers wear suits and snakeskin boots, they aren't religious.
Personally, I find #5 inarguable. I can see why Protestants may be compelled to resist the authority of Catholic teachers based on their interpretations of Scripture, but to resist obeying all that Jesus commanded? That makes no sense.
If ye love me, keep my commandments. (John 14:15)
As Kamati pointed out, the leaders of our religion teach us to do just that, as they were commanded by Christ. Perhaps you need to give it another look and see why Christ would have delegated them to do so.
Though I once fell for the whole "believing in Jesus merely means believing he died for your sins" fallacy, I now view it as an error with generally good intentions behind it. But I do not see how any honest, seeking Christian can think that believing in Jesus is limited to just that.
It's common sense. When kids believe in Santa Claus, they know that they must meet his requirements of "being good" in order to get their gifts from him. Before evan comes in here and accuses me, no, I am not comparing Santa to God. The gifts of the Spirit are free and are by no merit of our own. Again, this is all just common sense. If you believe in something or someone, you believe in all of them, not just the parts about them that make you all warm and fuzzy inside. That is selfish.
God is a God of covenants, and though he will never break his promise to us, there are circumstances to our neglecting to meet our side of the bargain.
As James points out, even the demons believe in the same sense that evangelist does. That does not guarantee him a spot in heaven. Jesus will separate the sheep from the goats. Period. No ifs, ands or buts about it. It's a hard and often overlooked truth, but it is truth, nonetheless. No matter how hard evan and others attempt to build up this fantasy world around it, all myth eventually melts away in the light of truth, which will always prevail.
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' (Matthew 7:22)
The people who say this obviously have faith. They believe in Jesus, and they even performed works in his name, but that's not enough. It reminds me of the Parable of the Wedding Banquet:
Matthew 22:1 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’
5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 ‘Friend,’ he asked, ‘how did you get in here without wedding clothes?’ The man was speechless.
13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
What is the "wedding garment"? Is it faith? Evan may argue that it is, but I beg to differ. The people who accept the wedding invitation obviously have faith, or else, they would not have accepted.
Faith without works is dead, and so are works without faith. In Matthew 7:22, they had both. Hence, my position that we are saved by grace alone, through faith and works done in charity. We can not force ourselves to have faith or to love, and to thus, genuinely give. It must be Christ working through us as we are inspired by the Holy Spirit, and we must cooperate with his grace.
Evan, you have been shown where Jesus says to obey his commandments. Care to offer me one where he says we can commit any sin we want as long as it is kept secret? Since you said that, I have been a little disturbed, and I would like some clarification.
It's the catholics who dont accept the Bible, Yet they are big hypocrites, Quoting the Bible but they don't believe it.
Where do you find the catholic teachings in the Bible??.. You dont.
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quote:
Originally posted by Kamati
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[1]You said.
quote:
1. Jesus left us teachers who teach in His name; with His authority; guided by the Holy Spirit. Deny that and you deny the Bible!
2. Jesus-appointed teachers are perfectly able to tell me what John 3:16 means because Jesus is with them always and the Holy Spirit guides them to the whole truth.
[End quote].
I take it you are talking about Christians..
Yes, I am talking about Catholic Christians. They are the only ones led by Christ-appointed teachers. On the contrary, you are led by self-appointed teachers (i.e. false teachers) who have no connection with the original Church whatsoever. And that is here where church history comes in; and that is here where you forced to rely on fabricated stories.
[quote]Originally posted by God4me
[2]You said.
[Quote].
The only reason why you might not have those facts is because you keep turning your itching ears to deceivers.
Lo and behold, that is exactly what you reject.
7. You pretend to believe “in Him” but you fail to observe all He commanded; in other words you do not really believe “in Him”.
8. Even when you go around boasting of believing "in Him", we know that in practice you reject Him.
[End quote].
I take it you are talking about catholics.
No, here I am talking about you guys. You claim to believe "in Him" but you don't. You refuse to listern to His Church and according to the Bible, you are in the same category with gentiles and tax collectors:
"If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector" (Matthew 18:17)
Your very last option now is to claim that Matthew 18:17 refers to your church, but history refutes you. Your church did not exist before 1900. You know this, but try by all means to fabricate a false history, acting more like a lawyer defending a confessed murderer and trying to prove that his client is actually not guilty.
[1]catholics aren't Christians, You poor deluded soul.
[2]How can catholic teachers be lead by Christ when their teachings aren't in the Bible??.. WAKE UP.
[3]If you knew the Bible, [Which you dont], You would know that Jesus gave the Miniostry gifts, Eph 4: 11. And God set them in the Christian Church. 1 Cor 12: 28.
So how can WE Christians be self appointed??. WAKE UP.
[4]When You said.
[Quote].
The only reason why you might not have those facts is because you keep turning your itching ears to deceivers.
Lo and behold, that is exactly what you reject.
7. You pretend to believe “in Him” but you fail to observe all He commanded; in other words you do not really believe “in Him”.
8. Even when you go around boasting of believing "in Him", we know that in practice you reject Him.
[End quote].
You are talking about catholics, STOP TELLING LIES.
[5]catholics aren't Christ Church, STOP TELLING LIES, They were formed by the devil some 300-600 years after Jesus formed Hid TRUE Church.
The Church in Matt 18: 17, Is the TRUE Church, NOT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH...WAKE UP.
The catholic history might refute us TRUE Christians, But the Bible doesn't.
[6]What happened in the 1900, Was a revival of an already established Christian Church, You dont know the TRUE Church history. DO YOU?.
Well it started on the day of pentecost when Jesus built His Church.
So, STOP TELLING LIES, I can tell you are a catholic, They always tell lies.
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Fifth Member
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
It's the catholics who dont accept the Bible, Yet they are big hypocrites, Quoting the Bible but they don't believe it.
I challenged you several times before to prove which part of the Bible Catholics do not accept, but you never even tried to take up the challenge.
For you, making a baseless claim is the most Christian thing to do.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Where do you find the catholic teachings in the Bible??.. You dont.
The Catholic Church canonized the Bible (FACT); taught it (FACT), protected it from corruption for centuries before there was any Pentecostal sect (FACT), translated it into vernacular languages (FACT), divided it into chapters and verses for easy reference (FACT).
With those facts in mind, I will consider as delusional any one saying the Catholic Church did all that because they hated the Bible or without reading it themselves. And if you think they did all that guided by the devil (and not by the Holy Spirit), then it is high time you out of the closet and openly thank the devil for providing you with a Bible.
Okay, that aside, you need to prove:
1. Which Catholic teachings contradicts the Bible, and
2. Where the Bible says every teaching must be in the Bible.
From the very moment you provide those two proofs, I will believe whatever else you post here afterwards.
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Fifth Member
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[1]catholics aren't Christians, You poor deluded soul.
Okay, calm down and stop believing that things “are so” simply because God4me says they “are so”. It might be a sign that you reject reality and prefer fantasy that makes you feel super and “saved”.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[2]How can catholic teachers be lead by Christ when their teachings aren't in the Bible??.. WAKE UP.
I already posted the challenge in my previous post and hope you will take it up. Good luck!
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[3]If you knew the Bible, [Which you dont], You would know that Jesus gave the Miniostry gifts, Eph 4: 11. And God set them in the Christian Church. 1 Cor 12: 28.
So how can WE Christians be self appointed??. WAKE UP.
The little fact you may have overlooked is that Christian ministry is handed down like in a relay race. I don’t know whether you are familiar with a relay race.
You know, you do not just stand up one beautiful morning, walk to the nearest bookstore, buy a copy of the Bible, set up a tent and start preaching claiming to be a minister in Christ’s church. No, that is not how it works.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[4]When You said.
[Quote].
The only reason why you might not have those facts is because you keep turning your itching ears to deceivers.
Lo and behold, that is exactly what you reject.
7. You pretend to believe “in Him” but you fail to observe all He commanded; in other words you do not really believe “in Him”.
8. Even when you go around boasting of believing "in Him", we know that in practice you reject Him.
[End quote].
You are talking about catholics, STOP TELLING LIES.
I like it when you start saying “stop telling lies” because I know that for the heretics, the truth is a lie.
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Fifth Member
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Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
[5]catholics aren't Christ Church, STOP TELLING LIES, They were formed by the devil some 300-600 years after Jesus formed Hid TRUE Church.
And what happened to Christ’s true church after that? Why don’t we see it recorded anywhere between 300 and 1500?
Ah, it was in hiding, right?
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Fifth Member
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
The Church in Matt 18: 17, Is the TRUE Church, NOT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH...WAKE UP.
Okay, it was the true church, but where was this true church when the Catholic Church was doing all the work? Why did this true church not give believers at least one Bible translation from 300 to 1500? Why is this true church not recorded any where for over a thousand years?
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Fifth Member
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
The catholic history might refute us TRUE Christians, But the Bible doesn't.
[6]What happened in the 1900, Was a revival of an already established Christian Church,
Okay, the Bible says false teachers will come out of the true church. Whether this did happen or not, only history can tell (not the Bible). And history proves that what the Bible predicted is exactly what happened. Just take some time and try to find out which church came out of which church and you will find that even those who led the so-called 1900 “revival” were formaerly members of other existing churches. But the Bible nowhere says the true church will come out of false church; it says false sects will come out of the true church.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
You dont know the TRUE Church history. DO YOU?.
I think I know fairly enough, but I am open-minded enough and can still consider any new historic facts.
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
Well it started on the day of pentecost when Jesus built His Church.
That is the claim you are making, but why are you unable to provide evidence of your church’s existence in the seventh century for instance? What happened to it after it was founded? Why did it never translate the Bible? Why did its leaders not leave any written records? Why did it not protest when the “false” catholic sect was “founded by the devil” at an unknown date between 300 and 600?
And, why are you unable to pinpoint a specific date between 300 and 600 as the date the Catholic Church was founded.
And the mother of all questions: why do we see distinctive Catholic doctrines before 300 AD?
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Fifth Member
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
So, STOP TELLING LIES, I can tell you are a catholic, They always tell lies.
The opposite is true. Heretics always label the truth as a lie.
Isaiah 5:20, Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil, who change darkness into light, and light into darkness, who change bitter into sweet, and sweet into bitter!
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Fifth Member
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Member since 07/20/2012
Location: Namibia
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
catholics aren't Christians, STOP TELLING LIES.
Just because you have lost any chance of getting to heaven, You dont have to deceive catholics into believing they are Christians.
When Catholics says they are Christians they are wrong, wrong, wrong! Catholics are not what they themselves claim to be; they are what God4me says they are, you know.
Catholics please take note: When God4me says something "is so", then it "is so".
When he condemns you to hell then you go to hell, and when he places himself in heaven then he is in heaven, you see!
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Fifth Member
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Hi God4me,
What exactly are the functions of the ministers in Christ's TRUE CHURCH (your church, that is)? Do they teach and interpret the Bible?
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