The only unpardonable sin renouncing Jesus!
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I would like to start this thread specially on this topic about the only sin which send a person to hell is renouncing Jesus as thier Lord or rejection of Jesus because of unbelief and that is why sins in general is not the issue!Sinner and unbeliever are already condemned more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/20/2012 09:42:15
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Originally posted by evangelist
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Originally posted by michael
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Originally posted by evangelist
michael
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Not following Protestant doctrine & renouncing Jesus is not the same.
Who is saying it is the same?
one love
Catholics not following Protestant doctrines does not mean they fit into the Protestant category of renouncing Jesus.
Catholics not following Protestant doctrines does not mean they fit into the Protestant category of not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
There is a distinction clearly made between a sin which is not unto death AND
1Jo:5:16: If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask,
sin unto death
and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
See the distinction between where it says sin not unto death AND sin unto death?
Are you blind you highlighted the first part of the sentence the ignored the rest of the sentence after the word and
1Jo:5:17: All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
The only obvious sin unto death is renouncing or rejecting Jesus and that has nothing to do with any religion at large, but a true biblical fact!
one love
Hello!
Catholics not following Protestant doctrines does not mean they fit into the category of renouncing Jesus.
Catholics not following Protestant doctrines does not mean they fit into the category of not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Nothing in the bible say anything about following any Protestant denomination doctrin belief.
Since Protestants are protesting the Catholic Church it means the Catholic Church had to come before any Protestant denomination. Since Protestantism came second they could not have been the first in the book of Acts. It is pure logic.
Protestants by exiting the first community excommunicated themselves from the first Church. Protestants excommunicated themselves from what that first Church believed. Protestants are renouncing the belief of the first church the Catholic Church.
Through bigotry prejudices false assumptions & false premises Protestants are protesting a catholic church made up by Protestantism that does not actually exist.
Edited by michael on 07/21/2012 16:40:48
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Originally posted by evangelist
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Originally posted by God4me
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Originally posted by evangelist
I would like to start this thread specially on this topic about the only sin which send a person to hell is renouncing Jesus as thier Lord or rejection of Jesus because of unbelief and that is why sins in general is not the issue!
Sinner and unbeliever are already condemned to hell:
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
1Jo:2:16: For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jo:2:17: And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1Jo:2:18: Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jo:2:19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jo:2:22: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jo:2:23: Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
let me start with this for now!
I will quote scripture from Hebrews which show a person who renounce Jesus can not come back to the Lord and that sin is unpardonable and also against the Holy Spirit!
Heb:6:4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb:6:5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb:6:6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb:6:7: For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb:6:8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Also:
Heb:10:26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
1Jo:5:16: If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.1Jo:5:17: All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Also notice all unrighteousness is sin , meaning John is showing there is no category of big or little sins or mortal or no mortal sin they all are the same bad sins before God and that is a true fact which lines up perfectly with:
Jas:2:10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
and
Jas:4:17: Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
one love
There are two other sins that won't be forgiven.
[1]Unrepented unforgiveness, Mk 11:25.
[2]Blaspheming the Holy Ghost, Which is contebuting the works of God to the devil. Mk 3: 22--30.
James say when you don't do what you should is also a sin and those who don't repent or get born again is the sin of unrepentance to death and hell!
The Holy Spirit is the one who convict a person to repent and get born again, so in the same category as the first sin I mention and you said goes on the same one coin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which a person blasphemy against when not repenting of all their sins once and all times to get activate God forgiveness towards them!
So again the bible is right about there is only one coin or one sin which a person goes to hell and that is unbelief, as a sinner does!
Renouncing Jesus is on that same coin!
Shalom G4
If you put blaspheming the Holy Ghost in it's right context, It is contributing the works of God to the devil.
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Originally posted by evangelist
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
No. But you frequently seem to be stuck there.
I am going by what the NEW Testament says.
Jesus never once said that rejecting him was the only unpardonable sin. He did say that blaspheming against the Holy Spirit was.
But even more importantly, Jesus did not say that only the unpardonable sin would send us to Hell.
There are lots of sins that are pardonable, if we ask. And any of these can send us to Hell.
Jesus taught us how to avoid this problem. Unbelievers don't have the Truth to save them, but you keep denying the Truth, that doesn't help either.
NO! you are going by a catholic and religious philosphy of a work system and self performance merit system!
one love
You are right this time,
A Christians sins are covered by the blood of Jesus, The only way we can go to hell, is by rejecting Jesus or turning away from Him.
Having said that, A TRUE Christian would quickly repent if they sin.
Christians aren't like the catholics, Who willfully sin believing that confessing to a priest and penance will forgive their sins.
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So you both say that Paul was lying when he told the Corinthians that some of their members (of the Corinthian church) were lost because they had not repented of their sins?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
So you both say that Paul was lying when he told the Corinthians that some of their members (of the Corinthian church) were lost because they had not repented of their sins?
Where does Paul say that??.
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I am going by the Bible. It happens to also be Catholic, but I haven't quoted any Catholic sources other than the Bible during this exchange.
A religious person can look at the bible in a merit system of legalism interpetaion based on works and performances, and take the bible out of contexts!
An good example of doing that was how Luther wanted to take even James out the bible because he couldn't see how works and grace of unmerit favor with is based on jesus works and contradicts his understanding!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by michael
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by michael
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
michael
quote:
Not following Protestant doctrine & renouncing Jesus is not the same.
Who is saying it is the same?
one love
Catholics not following Protestant doctrines does not mean they fit into the Protestant category of renouncing Jesus.
Catholics not following Protestant doctrines does not mean they fit into the Protestant category of not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
There is a distinction clearly made between a sin which is not unto death AND
1Jo:5:16: If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask,
sin unto death
and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
See the distinction between where it says sin not unto death AND sin unto death?
Are you blind you highlighted the first part of the sentence the ignored the rest of the sentence after the word and
1Jo:5:17: All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
The only obvious sin unto death is renouncing or rejecting Jesus and that has nothing to do with any religion at large, but a true biblical fact!
one love
Hello!
Catholics not following Protestant doctrines does not mean they fit into the category of renouncing Jesus.
Catholics not following Protestant doctrines does not mean they fit into the category of not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Nothing in the bible say anything about following any Protestant denomination doctrin belief.
Since Protestants are protesting the Catholic Church it means the Catholic Church had to come before any Protestant denomination. Since Protestantism came second they could not have been the first in the book of Acts. It is pure logic.
Protestants by exiting the first community excommunicated themselves from the first Church. Protestants excommunicated themselves from what that first Church believed. Protestants are renouncing the belief of the first church the Catholic Church.
Is that like when the blaks protested for thier freedom and rights after or second when we were slaves, are you saying the same thing as such?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
I would like to start this thread specially on this topic about the only sin which send a person to hell is renouncing Jesus as thier Lord or rejection of Jesus because of unbelief and that is why sins in general is not the issue!
Sinner and unbeliever are already condemned to hell:
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh:3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
1Jo:2:16: For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
1Jo:2:17: And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1Jo:2:18: Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jo:2:19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jo:2:22: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jo:2:23: Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
let me start with this for now!
I will quote scripture from Hebrews which show a person who renounce Jesus can not come back to the Lord and that sin is unpardonable and also against the Holy Spirit!
Heb:6:4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb:6:5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb:6:6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb:6:7: For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb:6:8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
Also:
Heb:10:26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
1Jo:5:16: If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.1Jo:5:17: All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
Also notice all unrighteousness is sin , meaning John is showing there is no category of big or little sins or mortal or no mortal sin they all are the same bad sins before God and that is a true fact which lines up perfectly with:
Jas:2:10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
and
Jas:4:17: Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
one love
There are two other sins that won't be forgiven.
[1]Unrepented unforgiveness, Mk 11:25.
[2]Blaspheming the Holy Ghost, Which is contebuting the works of God to the devil. Mk 3: 22--30.
James say when you don't do what you should is also a sin and those who don't repent or get born again is the sin of unrepentance to death and hell!
The Holy Spirit is the one who convict a person to repent and get born again, so in the same category as the first sin I mention and you said goes on the same one coin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit which a person blasphemy against when not repenting of all their sins once and all times to get activate God forgiveness towards them!
So again the bible is right about there is only one coin or one sin which a person goes to hell and that is unbelief, as a sinner does!
Renouncing Jesus is on that same coin!
Shalom G4
If you put blaspheming the Holy Ghost in it's right context, It is contributing the works of God to the devil.
Why don't you come on the thread made for us G4?
shalom
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I am going by the Bible. It happens to also be Catholic, but I haven't quoted any Catholic sources other than the Bible during this exchange.
A religious person can look at the bible in a merit system of legalism interpetaion based on works and performances, and take the bible out of contexts!
An good example of doing that was how Luther wanted to take even James out the bible because he couldn't see how works and grace of unmerit favor with is based on jesus works and contradicts his understanding!
one love
I am glad you agree that Martin Luthor erred in his interpretation of the Scriptures and how he tried for remake the scriptures to fit his religious philosophy. His most aggregious error was when he added the word "alone" to his German translation of Romans 3:28 in order to make the Bible match his faulty interpretation.
But where many Protestants also err is in their assumptions concerning the "legalisms" we are to avoid.
In Matthew 15 (start from the beginning), the Pharisees showed us the true error of legalism when they accused the Messiah's disciples of transgressing when they had not washed their hands before eating.
God never commanded that anyone wash their hands before eating, the command was for priests to wash their hands (and feet) when performing their priestly duties, and as a measure to cleanse one of ritual impurity under specific circumstances. The Pharisees had added to the DIVINE Law, that we are all bound by and still are until the earth itself falls away. THAT was an example of LEGALISM.
But, the greatest sin of legalism that Jesus condemned, was not simply adding laws to God's Laws - they had that authority, which is why Jesus also commanded that His disciples obey them that sat on Moses seat and do whatsoever they were told (but not their example, which was poor) - but to create laws that went against the Divine Law.
When Jesus condemned man-made traditions, He gave an example of what we are to watch for - in this particular case, Jesus condemned the practice of the Corban - this man-made tradition allowed a person who get out of looking after his parents in their old age by making a donation to the Temple which would relieve them of this duty. This was not merely a man-made tradition, but a tradition that directly violated the Divine Law which commands that we Honour our Mother and our Father.
Jesus explicitly spelled this out in Matthew 15, and confirmed the Ten Commandments as still being in effect in Matthew 19, and also repeated in the parallel sections in Mark and Luke, and a variation where HE gave the example Himself of doing the same in John.
Paul also confirmed the Divine Laws still being in effect in part in Ephesians 6, but even more explicitly in Romans 13.
The Divine Law is just as binding as it ever was and it will never be recinded. Jesus swore that this would be in effect until the end of the world.
But the many man-made legalisms as invented by the Pharisees - those are done away with. And the Ceremonial Laws of the OT that were directly connected with the Old Covenant, that are now not so much done away with, but perfected - the one perfect sacrifice of Christ replacing all the others.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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At no time did Jesus or Paul or any other Apostle ever condemn obedience to God's Law or even the religious observance of God's Law as being any thing we should avoid or rebuke.
On the contrary, as indicated in my recent post above, they affirmed the Divine Law as being still in effect and binding upon all born again Christians.
What we should be avoiding is adding to the Divine Law. For example, God said that we should keep holy the Sabbath Day. Men decided that the best way to determine how far one could walk before infringing on the law was with a measuring stick and apply specific measured limits for what was OK and what was too far. The Pharisees had so many legalisms that it was a heavy burden on the people to know what they could do and what they couldn't.
A modern example is found among the Pentecostals who similarly impose restrictions that were never imposed by God. Thou shalt not smoke, thou shalt not dance, thou not have any fun at all.
God said that thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord in vain. Modern pastors say that even saying the common equivalent of dung is the same level as taking the Lord's Name in vain - when did dung get put on the same level as the Lord's Name? How did that happen?
The funny thing is, ask any Pentecostal and they will tell you that nothing one of their members do, other than rejecting Jesus, will send them to Hell. There is no penalty in the afterlife for even violating the Divine Law. And YET, they will turn around and judge non-Pentecostals by their man-made laws and condemn them to Hell.
THIS is the error of legalism. This is what IS condemned by Jesus and Paul.
We have many Pharisees among broader Christianity - but if one actually knew anything about how things were done in the first century or at least bothered to read what was actually being said in the Bible instead of trying to make if fit with their preconceived notions, it would be plain that this is not what we find in the Catholic Church.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Hello G4
Why don't you respond to the link I gave you?
Shalom
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Member since 01/25/2012
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
No. But you frequently seem to be stuck there.
I am going by what the NEW Testament says.
Jesus never once said that rejecting him was the only unpardonable sin. He did say that blaspheming against the Holy Spirit was.
But even more importantly, Jesus did not say that only the unpardonable sin would send us to Hell.
There are lots of sins that are pardonable, if we ask. And any of these can send us to Hell.
Jesus taught us how to avoid this problem. Unbelievers don't have the Truth to save them, but you keep denying the Truth, that doesn't help either.
NO! you are going by a catholic and religious philosphy of a work system and self performance merit system!
one love
Evalgelist also subdivides the New Testament. The New Testament for him begins after Christ's death.
Conveniently making null and void all that Christ said prior to His death; as if all He said only concerns the "Old Testament Jews".
Null and void are all His statements concerning sin. And "doing the Commandments."
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Evangelist, I gave a couple of posts above explaining legalism in the Bible and in religious practice, I would really appreciate it if you read them both through, and gave me your thoughts.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, I gave a couple of posts above explaining legalism in the Bible and in religious practice, I would really appreciate it if you read them both through, and gave me your thoughts.
Are you thinking that legalism and religious practice is a unpardonable sin? 
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 08/04/2012 13:51:19
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Originally posted by God4me
Christians aren't like the catholics, Who willfully sin believing that confessing to a priest and penance will forgive their sins.
Mortal sin of calumny.
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