The cause of sin is a Roman Catholic MYSTERY
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Pope Benedict XVI told Irish Catholics on Sunday 18/06/12 it is a mystery why priests and other church officials abused children entrusted in their care. Catholic theology teaches that the pope as a bishop is able to interpret what God is saying. However in this case he more... Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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"How are we to explain the fact that people who regularly received the Lord's body and confessed their sins in the sacrament of Penance have offended in this way?" said the pope, referring to church staff who abused children.
"It remains a mystery," he said. "Yet evidently their Christianity was no longer nourished by joyful encounter with Jesus Christ. It had become merely a matter of habit."
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The Pope is not losing his marbles after all, but I see the source of your confusion.
If you knew more about Catholic theology, you would know that a Catholic must be properly disposed to receive the sacraments. Paul mentioned this in the Bible. If one is not, then they risk judgment, and in some cases, God will allow a heart to be hardened.
What happened to the priests was perfectly Biblical with respect to the Sacraments, but it is a mystery as to why they did not allow themselves to be so disposed.
The Pope said himself that the reception of the sacraments had become a mere habit to them and not what it should have been.
I still suspect that many of the offending priests were not participating in the sacramental life of the Church in the way that they ought to. And as I said before, many should not have been able to pass through the admission process in the first place.
God did not fail anyone. If any of those priests had honestly sought help, they might have been able to overcome their difficulties. There are Catholics who have overcome other sexual sins through the sacraments.
Pedophilia is a mental illness, but while I doubt any priest would have told anyone that they were pedophiles while being screened for the priesthood, their homosexuality should have kept them out.
You keep saying that this somehow proves that there is something wrong with the Catholic Church and the sacraments, and yet we fared better than those churches outside the Catholic Church. So what was their excuse?
Did God fail them?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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This was my question: The pope did say that the sacraments weren't working for those paedophile priests. Do you think that the Eucharist, which you say is Jesus, did its job saving those priests?
Your Eucharist failed those priests and what will it do for pew-warmers is anyone's guess.
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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You say that your Eucharist didn't fail those priests, when Paul states that those who commit sexual immorality will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Are you greater than Paul?
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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Originally posted by Conqueror
The pope did say that the sacraments weren't working for those paedophile priests. Do you think that the Eucharist, which you say is Jesus, did its job saving those priests?
1 Corinthians 11:28-29 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
The Eucharist IS Jesus, but He is to be received worthily. Those priests were lost in their sin and were not receiving worthily.
The Sacrament of Reconciliation should have worked, but one must be repentant of their sins to be truly transformed. I know the power of the sacrament, I have experienced it first hand, even after many years away from it. I know that it has the power to transform, but only if one wants to be transformed.
The Bible is full of examples of God hardening the hearts of those who have chosen to be obstinate in their sin. But it is still a mystery that it should happen in Christ's Church of all places.
But then again, we are to always be vigilent.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Why didn't your sacramental God give the grace necessary for those priests to overcome their sin? All you do is blame those priests and are you not attempting to deal with sin in your life? Is your God giving you enough grace to overcome sin in your life? Are you therefore suffering from a hardened heart as well?
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
Edited by Conqueror on 06/19/2012 20:01:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Conqueror
You say that your Eucharist didn't fail those priests, when Paul states that those who commit sexual immorality will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Are you greater than Paul?
? Not sure why you are asking that question.
Those who commit sexual immorality will not enter the Kingdom. It is not the purpose of the Eucharist to wipe out mortal sin.
Most Protestants believe that once saved they can't go to Hell unless they reject Jesus. I have been told that a Protestant can molest children to his heart's content and still go to Heaven just because he said a sinner's prayer and got born again.
I take it that you don't buy into any of that OSAS nonsense.
But according to the Catholic Church Mortal Sin can only be absolved through the sincere reception of the Sacrament of Reconciliation and one may NOT receive the Eucharist if they have not done this. Participating in either sacrament unworthily is a sacrilege.
The Pope did not say that the sacraments failed the priests but rather that he was disappointed and hurt that the priests failed in their responsibilities and did not properly receive the sacraments - these became for them a matter of habit and not a source of spiritual nourishment as they are for those who do receive worthily.
They profaned the Body of Christ.
Now given that the problem is worse and still ongoing outside the Catholic Church - to whom should we go?
The number of incidents has dwindled to a minute number inside the Church, and yet has not reduced at all outside of the Church, not even among Protestant churches.
I would say that I am better off where I am. Clearly the sacraments are working much better here than they are elsewhere.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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The pope was mystified why the sacraments didn't work for those priests. But if you say that this isn't so then the pope must be a liar. The next question is why is he your leader.
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by Conqueror
Why didn't your sacramental God give the grace necessary for those priests to overcome their sin? All you do is blame those priests and are you not attempting to deal with sin in your life? Is your God giving you enough grace to overcome sin in your life? Are you therefore suffering from a hardened heart as well?
Are you suggesting that Jesus was insufficient when Judas betrayed Him?
What else can I assume.
Should I denounce Jesus Christ because HE was unable to grant sufficient Grace for Judas Iscariot to overcome his sin? Is this really the standard you want to go by?
Nothing will convince an atheist if he does not wish to believe, but I have experienced the effects of Christ's Grace in my life and I was able to overcome a great deal. I feel sorry that you have not experienced this where you are.
Jesus wondered if there would be any still faithful when HE returned. There are some in the Catholic Church who are weak in their faith in spite of the graces available. But there are also some amazing examples of faith.
I have seen what its like out there. I feel much safer where I am.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Well if you are not with a partner it gets a little off balanced for men and they turn to other things such as themselves or another man or children because they are told to avoid woman in all cases so what do they do?? Turn into evil creatures of the flesh and attack yes the most vulnerable an d innocent.Even those who are getting relief with another man can still go after a child because he is already doing evil it is allot easier once you are living in such sin. This is not a new thing it all started with that jackass Gregory who changed the laws of marriage and it has been covered up for to long now with information and internet we get the truth one way or the other as it says in the good book :Be sure your sin will find you out! B3
baby3
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quote:
Originally posted by Conqueror
The pope was mystified why the sacraments didn't work for those priests. But if you say that this isn't so then the pope must be a liar. The next question is why is he your leader.
His is not a liar, this is what he said:
"How are we to explain the fact that people who regularly received the Lord's body and confessed their sins in the sacrament of Penance have offended in this way?" said the pope, referring to church staff who abused children.
"It remains a mystery," he said. "Yet evidently their Christianity was no longer nourished by joyful encounter with Jesus Christ. It had become merely a matter of habit."
He gave the answer - It had become merely a matter of habit. That is not worthy reception. Just because you don't understand the proper disposition necessary to receive the sacrament does not make the Pope a liar or unworthy to lead us.
The sacraments did not fail. They did not provide nourishment because they were not received worthily. The Pope is rightly shocked that priests were not properly disposed to receive the sacraments and did not live up to their vocation.
Perhaps instead of saying the sacraments failed, how about reading up on the sacraments and perhaps then you will understand better what the Pope is saying.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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I never suggested that anyone would be disappointed when they turn to Jesus. The pope is mystified why the Eucharistic God didn't perform for paedophile priests. He never equated this problem with Judas, so why do you? Do you know more than the pope you follow?
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
Conqueror,
You take other people's comments and infer your own preconceptions upon them.
Where did the Pope say, "I'm mystified why the Eucharistic God didn't perform for paedophile pederastic priests".
You twist meaning and sentences.
As you did with my post.
The Catholic Church, through the Papal office, is able to send out requirements and orders for action.
The various protestantisms are not that capable.
In example, here in the U.S., for the protection of children from possible abuse, the USCCB has established standards:
http://www.usccb.org/about/child-and-youth-protection/
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/child-and-youth-protection/
Edited by bwellmysoul on 06/20/2012 05:45:44
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quote:
The pope is mystified why the Eucharistic God didn't perform for paedophile priests.
Let me quess; you are an atheist or an agnostic with a post-Protestant bent.
Why God didn't perform?
Who talks like that?
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Originally posted by baby3
Well if you are not with a partner it gets a little off balanced for men and they turn to other things such as themselves or another man or children because they are told to avoid woman in all cases so what do they do??
You have a failed understanding of chastity in general and chastity in the priesthood in particular.
And of pederasty.
And of child sexual assault in the Catholic Church.
And of child sexual assault in the various protestantisms.
Please, do your homework on issues before making comments.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 06/20/2012 05:52:38
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Most pedophiles are married men with children. Should we ban marriage?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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