1 John1:9 is so misunderstood by many churches
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1Jo:1:9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.This is sins of many plural sins and again what happen if you forget a sin or two, even sins of things we should have done and didn't??I think this more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/05/2011 09:52:01
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Example of the lives of martyred Christians in the 3rd Century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetua_and_Felicity
quote:
Perpetua and Felicity (died 7 March 203) are Christian martyrs of the 3rd century.
Perpetua (born in 181) was a 22-year old married noble and a nursing mother.
Her co-martyr Felicity, an expectant mother, was her slave. They suffered together at Carthage in the Roman province of Africa.
The Passion of St. Perpetua, St. Felicitas, and their Companions is said to preserve the actual words of the martyrs and their friends.
According to this Passion, in the year 203 during the persecutions of the emperor Septimius Severus, five catechumens, Perpetua and Felicity among them, were arrested for their faith and executed.
The text as recorded in the Passio SS Perpetuae et Felicitatis claims to contain the autobiographical account of Perpetua, edited and commented on by Tertullian.[3]
The group consisted of a slave named Revocatus, his fellow slave Felicitas, two free men (Saturninus and Secundulus), and Perpetua.
By order of Emperor Septimius Severus (193–211), all imperial subjects were forbidden under severe penalties to become Christians or Jews. Only recent converts were affected.[5] As a result, all five were seized and cast into prison, but before being led away, they were baptized.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 05/30/2012 06:52:09
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
This "renouncing Christ" requirement for the loss of a soul's salvation is interesting.
At what intention point have people "renounced Christ"?
According to you, Evangelist, Mormons and JW have renounced Christ due to the particular way in which their founding fathers revisioned Sacred Scripture for their particular denomination.
Interesting.
Nearly all the protestantisms have renounced Christ's words concerning His Presence in the bread and in the wine.
Yes we do renounce cannabalism!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Member since 01/25/2012
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
This "renouncing Christ" requirement for the loss of a soul's salvation is interesting.
At what intention point have people "renounced Christ"?
According to you, Evangelist, Mormons and JW have renounced Christ due to the particular way in which their founding fathers revisioned Sacred Scripture for their particular denomination.
Interesting.
Nearly all the protestantisms have renounced Christ's words concerning His Presence in the bread and in the wine.
Yes we do renounce cannabalism!
one love
Are you aware that in the Early Church, Christians were accused of "cannabalism" by the Roman Empire?
That criminal charge of cannibalism is why Justin wrote his apology in 150 A.D. to the Roman government, in the hope that Christianity would eventually be made a legal form of worship.
In his apology, he describes what occurs at Mass and what Christians believe about the Eucharist.
http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/269/first_apology_of_st._justin_martyr.html
Justin's Apology to "...the Emperor Titus Ælius Adrianus Antoninus Pius Augustus Caesar, and to his son Verissimus the Philosopher, and to Lucius the Philosopher, the natural son of Caesar, and the adopted son of Pius, a lover of learning, and to the sacred Senate, with the whole People of the Romans...."
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And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.
For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.
For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone.
Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 05/30/2012 11:19:45
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God said,
"Truely, Truely,I say to you;"
"unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood, you will have no life within you."
"Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
This "renouncing Christ" requirement for the loss of a soul's salvation is interesting.
At what intention point have people "renounced Christ"?
According to you, Evangelist, Mormons and JW have renounced Christ due to the particular way in which their founding fathers revisioned Sacred Scripture for their particular denomination.
Interesting.
Nearly all the protestantisms have renounced Christ's words concerning His Presence in the bread and in the wine.
Yes we do renounce cannabalism!
one love
Are you aware that in the Early Church, Christians were accused of "cannabalism" by the Roman Empire?
That criminal charge of cannibalism is why Justin wrote his apology in 150 A.D. to the Roman government, in the hope that Christianity would eventually be made a legal form of worship.
In his apology, he describes what occurs at Mass and what Christians believe about the Eucharist.
http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/269/first_apology_of_st._justin_martyr.html
Justin's Apology to "...the Emperor Titus Ælius Adrianus Antoninus Pius Augustus Caesar, and to his son Verissimus the Philosopher, and to Lucius the Philosopher, the natural son of Caesar, and the adopted son of Pius, a lover of learning, and to the sacred Senate, with the whole People of the Romans...."
quote:
And this food is called among us Eukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.
For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh.
For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone.
Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.
Why in your eucharist do you have to make a tradition carnal?? 
Why have some kind of transformation into the physical, when the spiritual is better???
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Why in your eucharist do you have to make a tradition carnal??
Why have some kind of transformation into the physical, when the spiritual is better???
one love
"Your Eucharist" is incorrect.
"Why do you make" is incorrect.
"Why do you make a tradition" is incorrect.
"Why do you make a tradition carnal" is also incorrect.
You've read Christ's Gospel.
The Son of God instituted the Eucharist.
The Son of God made this Blessed Sacrament.
The Son of God asked all Christians to celebrate Him, to receive Him into our bodies.
The Son of God asked all Christians to remember Him in the breaking of the Bread.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 05/31/2012 05:32:44
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And if it were carnal, Jesus would have made the bread and wine look like what they became.
It takes great spiritual faith to know that the Bread and Wine of the Eucharist ARE the Body and Blood and Soul and Divinity of Our Lord. The carnal mind cannot see this, only the spiritual mind can.
The carnal mind can only see bread and wine, and nothing more.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Personally, I am glad that the Eucharist is not for the carnal mind. I prefer to see it through the eyes of faith for our unbloody sacrifice.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Why in your eucharist do you have to make a tradition carnal??
Why have some kind of transformation into the physical, when the spiritual is better???
one love
"Your Eucharist" is incorrect.
"Why do you make" is incorrect.
"Why do you make a tradition" is incorrect.
"Why do you make a tradition carnal" is also incorrect.
You've read Christ's Gospel.
The Son of God instituted the Eucharist.
The Son of God made this Blessed Sacrament.
The Son of God asked all Christians to celebrate Him, to receive Him into our bodies.
The Son of God asked all Christians to remember Him in the breaking of the Bread.
When you say do something in rememberance that is biblical correct in the Lord like we have the memorial parades in rememberance of the honorable soldiers who died in war for us, but to see those soldiers alive with us litterally would make us zombie believers and worst than that to litterally eat them like you do our precious Jesus and clain it is a command and just thihg to do in a catholic alone eucharist which is so demonic as satan if done that way, and is against the real Lord supper!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
The word for rememberance used in those passages concerning the Eucharist are unique. They are not the same word for remembering a person or event in general, there are other Greek words for that.
This unique word is sacramental in nature and only ever applies to a sacrifice. In the OT, sins were made present at the sacrifice. Not just recalled in one's mind, but actually present. When we DO THIS in remembrance of Jesus, we are making Him present, really and truly.
Satan cannot make Jesus become bread and wine. Only Jesus can. And Jesus said that He would, so how can you attribute fulfillment of Christ's PERSONAL PROMISE to be of Satan?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
And if it were carnal, Jesus would have made the bread and wine look like what they became.
It takes great spiritual faith to know that the Bread and Wine of the Eucharist ARE the Body and Blood and Soul and Divinity of Our Lord. The carnal mind cannot see this, only the spiritual mind can.
The carnal mind can only see bread and wine, and nothing more.
So when you eat Jesus blood and body , how does it taste to you, or is this a mind over matter thing?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Personally, I am glad that the Eucharist is not for the carnal mind. I prefer to see it through the eyes of faith for our unbloody sacrifice.
What do you mean by no blood involved?
Don't you need the blood to wash away sins, and get your ZOE life to beginning working in your life every sunday after every Mass after Mass??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
And if it were carnal, Jesus would have made the bread and wine look like what they became.
It takes great spiritual faith to know that the Bread and Wine of the Eucharist ARE the Body and Blood and Soul and Divinity of Our Lord. The carnal mind cannot see this, only the spiritual mind can.
The carnal mind can only see bread and wine, and nothing more.
So when you eat Jesus blood and body , how does it taste to you, or is this a mind over matter thing?
one love
No. It is a FAITH thing. All the external aspects (accidents = taste, texture, appearance) are as they were, only the substance has changed.
Would you really want to eat a host if it tasted like meat, or the wine if it really turned into blood? Thank God that Jesus did not do that (except on special occasions).
In rare cases, when necessary, Jesus actually did have the transubstantiated host change into what it was. In the most famous case, it was a priest who doubted who experienced this. He doubted no more after that. This happened in Lanciano, Italy, more than a thousand years ago.
Jesus can do this. He said He would do this. And He did do this.
The prohibition against eating/drinking blood that so many raise is because to consume the life-blood (blood = life in the OT) is to take on the life of the animal and thus become one. But with Christ, the whole point is to become like Him. We want and need to drink His Blood and eat His flesh to become part of the Body of Christ.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Personally, I am glad that the Eucharist is not for the carnal mind. I prefer to see it through the eyes of faith for our unbloody sacrifice.
What do you mean by no blood involved?
Don't you need the blood to wash away sins, and get your ZOE life to beginning working in your life every sunday after every Mass after Mass??
one love
Jesus shed His blood upon the Cross 2000 years ago. Why would we want to repeat that? It isn't necessary and even you know that much.
But the sacrifice didn't begin on the Cross, it was first offered up in an unbloody manner on Holy Thursday at the Last Supper. The sacrifice is the same sacrifice, not two difference sacrifices. And we offer up this same sacrifice even now. It is Christ's gift to us, the Pure Offering that Malachi said we would offer from the rising of the sun to the setting of the same.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
And if it were carnal, Jesus would have made the bread and wine look like what they became.
It takes great spiritual faith to know that the Bread and Wine of the Eucharist ARE the Body and Blood and Soul and Divinity of Our Lord. The carnal mind cannot see this, only the spiritual mind can.
The carnal mind can only see bread and wine, and nothing more.
So when you eat Jesus blood and body , how does it taste to you, or is this a mind over matter thing?
one love
No. It is a FAITH thing. All the external aspects (accidents = taste, texture, appearance) are as they were, only the substance has changed.
Would you really want to eat a host if it tasted like meat, or the wine if it really turned into blood? Thank God that Jesus did not do that (except on special occasions).
In rare cases, when necessary, Jesus actually did have the transubstantiated host change into what it was. In the most famous case, it was a priest who doubted who experienced this. He doubted no more after that. This happened in Lanciano, Italy, more than a thousand years ago.
Jesus can do this. He said He would do this. And He did do this.
The prohibition against eating/drinking blood that so many raise is because to consume the life-blood (blood = life in the OT) is to take on the life of the animal and thus become one. But with Christ, the whole point is to become like Him. We want and need to drink His Blood and eat His flesh to become part of the Body of Christ.
To make this valid would be making us with another new covenant of a conditional way to of earning our righteousness and trying to be what we already are so this is non sense to the max, unless you are into cannabalism!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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