The only unpardonable sin renouncing Jesus!
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I would like to start this thread specially on this topic about the only sin which send a person to hell is renouncing Jesus as thier Lord or rejection of Jesus because of unbelief and that is why sins in general is not the issue!Sinner and unbeliever are already condemned more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/20/2012 09:42:15
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Are you expanding your one sin?
"Unbelief" and "not having a Savior" are not rejections of Christ.
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quote:
Unbelief and not having a Saviour send a person to hell!
Our other sins been paid for by Jesus!
one love
And I gave you scriptural evidence that while all sins have been paid for by Jesus, not all sins are forgiven.
I showed you from the scriptures that sins committed by Born Again Christians had to be repented of to be forgiven. These were not the sins of unbelief or not having Jesus as a Saviour. These were Born Again Christians who believed in Jesus very much, but loved sin just a little bit more.
The Good News was that they could easily be saved just by REPENTING of their new sins. Paul showed this. They didn't have to crucify Christ again as you claim. All they had to do was REPENT. Easy.
But for those who would not repent, Paul said to put them OUT of the community and to not associate with these sinners unless they repented.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Unbelief and not having a Saviour send a person to hell!
Our other sins been paid for by Jesus!
one love
And I gave you scriptural evidence that while all sins have been paid for by Jesus, not all sins are forgiven.
Quote Evangelist:
Then what is the purpose of the payment of ALL sins Jesus did?
I showed you from the scriptures that sins committed by Born Again Christians had to be repented of to be forgiven. These were not the sins of unbelief or not having Jesus as a Saviour. These were Born Again Christians who believed in Jesus very much, but loved sin just a little bit more.
Quote evangelist:
But what about what Jesus paid in full for the sins of the whole world even the sins of unbelievers who never repented and their sins were paid for, except for the one sin unto death of renoucing Jesus, and also all those who don't accept Jesus is in the same category as such only they can get born again once?
The Good News was that they could easily be saved just by REPENTING of their new sins. Paul showed this. They didn't have to crucify Christ again as you claim. All they had to do was REPENT. Easy.
Quote Evangelist:
The accepting bring repentance, just like love cancel a mulitude of sins!
But for those who would not repent, Paul said to put them OUT of the community and to not associate with these sinners unless they repented.
Every sinner yes must repent to be saved ,I am not saving a sinner does not have to repent to be saved and be justified and redeemed, they do have to activate that payment Christ did 2000 years ago to be forgiven (once and for ALL), that is why I started the new thread about repenting VS confession.
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Unbelief and not having a Saviour send a person to hell!
Our other sins been paid for by Jesus!
one love
And I gave you scriptural evidence that while all sins have been paid for by Jesus, not all sins are forgiven.
Quote Evangelist:
Then what is the purpose of the payment of ALL sins Jesus did?
Not forgiveness. Sins were forgiven in the OT. But what they could not pay was the debt due to sin. That was impossible. Jesus paid the debt so that all those who had been forgiven could go to Heaven. You may recall that Jesus opened the Gates of Heaven when He died - before that, none could go to Heaven even through some were RIGHTEOUS, and many already had all their sins forgiven.
I showed you from the scriptures that sins committed by Born Again Christians had to be repented of to be forgiven. These were not the sins of unbelief or not having Jesus as a Saviour. These were Born Again Christians who believed in Jesus very much, but loved sin just a little bit more.
Quote evangelist:
But what about what Jesus paid in full for the sins of the whole world even the sins of unbelievers who never repented and their sins were paid for, except for the one sin unto death of renoucing Jesus, and also all those who don't accept Jesus is in the same category as such only they can get born again once?
As I said, the DEBT to sin was paid in full. For everyone. But this does not equal forgiveness of sin. For that we need to repent of our sins. Otherwise, we would not need to repent when we were baptized either right? And yet the Bible clearly shows that we do.
The Good News was that they could easily be saved just by REPENTING of their new sins. Paul showed this. They didn't have to crucify Christ again as you claim. All they had to do was REPENT. Easy.
Quote Evangelist:
The accepting bring repentance, just like love cancel a mulitude of sins!
Accepting does bring repentance. Godly sorrow brings repentance. And when they do, WE DO. We still have to do the repenting even though Grace brings us to this point.
But for those who would not repent, Paul said to put them OUT of the community and to not associate with these sinners unless they repented.
Every sinner yes must repent to be saved ,I am not saving a sinner does not have to repent to be saved and be justified and redeemed, they do have to activate that payment Christ did 2000 years ago to be forgiven (once and for ALL), that is why I started the new thread about repenting VS confession.
No. We don't activate forgiveness - once and for all. That just does not occur. We repent to be forgiven. Christ's death on the Cross paid the DEBT to sin, so that those who ALREADY had their sins forgiven could go to Heaven. Before that time, those who died did not go to Heaven, even though they had been forgiven, and some were even righteous as stated in the scriptures. And from then on, those who were forgiven of their sins could hope to go to Heaven when they died.
But while the debt for sin is paid in full, Once for All. Forgiveness is given on a case by case basis to those who seek it.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Unbelief and not having a Saviour send a person to hell!
Our other sins been paid for by Jesus!
one love
And I gave you scriptural evidence that while all sins have been paid for by Jesus, not all sins are forgiven.
Quote Evangelist:
Then what is the purpose of the payment of ALL sins Jesus did?
Not forgiveness. Sins were forgiven in the OT. But what they could not pay was the debt due to sin. That was impossible. Jesus paid the debt so that all those who had been forgiven could go to Heaven. You may recall that Jesus opened the Gates of Heaven when He died - before that, none could go to Heaven even through some were RIGHTEOUS, and many already had all their sins forgiven.
I showed you from the scriptures that sins committed by Born Again Christians had to be repented of to be forgiven. These were not the sins of unbelief or not having Jesus as a Saviour. These were Born Again Christians who believed in Jesus very much, but loved sin just a little bit more.
Quote evangelist:
But what about what Jesus paid in full for the sins of the whole world even the sins of unbelievers who never repented and their sins were paid for, except for the one sin unto death of renoucing Jesus, and also all those who don't accept Jesus is in the same category as such only they can get born again once?
As I said, the DEBT to sin was paid in full. For everyone. But this does not equal forgiveness of sin. For that we need to repent of our sins. Otherwise, we would not need to repent when we were baptized either right? And yet the Bible clearly shows that we do.
The Good News was that they could easily be saved just by REPENTING of their new sins. Paul showed this. They didn't have to crucify Christ again as you claim. All they had to do was REPENT. Easy.
Quote Evangelist:
The accepting bring repentance, just like love cancel a mulitude of sins!
Accepting does bring repentance. Godly sorrow brings repentance. And when they do, WE DO. We still have to do the repenting even though Grace brings us to this point.
But for those who would not repent, Paul said to put them OUT of the community and to not associate with these sinners unless they repented.
Every sinner yes must repent to be saved ,I am not saving a sinner does not have to repent to be saved and be justified and redeemed, they do have to activate that payment Christ did 2000 years ago to be forgiven (once and for ALL), that is why I started the new thread about repenting VS confession.
No. We don't activate forgiveness - once and for all. That just does not occur. We repent to be forgiven. Christ's death on the Cross paid the DEBT to sin, so that those who ALREADY had their sins forgiven could go to Heaven. Before that time, those who died did not go to Heaven, even though they had been forgiven, and some were even righteous as stated in the scriptures. And from then on, those who were forgiven of their sins could hope to go to Heaven when they died.
But while the debt for sin is paid in full, Once for All. Forgiveness is given on a case by case basis to those who seek it.
When did that (once and for All) take place , how many year ago was that??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
quote:
To Sardis.*
1“To the angel of the church in Sardis,* write this:
“The one who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars says this:
“I know your works, that you have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.
2Be watchful and strengthen what is left, which is going to die, for I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God.
3Remember then how you accepted and heard; keep it, and repent.
If you are not watchful, I will come like a thief, and you will never know at what hour I will come upon you.a
4However, you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; they will walk with me dressed in white, because they are worthy.b
5“The victor will thus be dressed in white,* and I will never erase his name from the book of life but will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and of his angels.c
Once Saved Always Saved?
Edited by bwellmysoul on 02/07/2013 08:55:43
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Once Saved Always Saved?
Only one sin; the sin of rejecting Christ dooms a soul?
quote:
Ananias and Sapphira
5 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property.
2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?
4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”
5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened.
6 Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.
7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?”
“Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”
9 Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”
10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband.
11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 02/07/2013 08:53:54
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Member since 11/17/2007
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Evangelist, Jesus paid the Debt due to sin that was impossible for us. Once and for all nearly 2000 years ago. That debt was so great, that even those under the Old Covenant who were forgiven could still not enter Heaven.
Got that? Their sins were ALREADY forgiven them, but they could not enter Heaven. Why? Because the DEBT was to high.
Jesus paid the Debt to sin. But the forgiveness is separate. Jesus was forgiving sins all over the place BEFORE He died. Lots of sins were forgiven even before Christ was born. It was not forgiveness that was hard to get, it was the debt owed from the sins that could not be paid because of who was wronged. We are not equal to God. Only Jesus, the Son of God, could pay the impossible debt.
The Debt is PAID. But we still need to seek forgiveness for our sins when we commit sins. We just don't have to slaughter any goats or bulls or Messiahs any more. Even before, the goats and bulls could not pay the debt. That is why they had to continually offer them.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, Jesus paid the Debt due to sin that was impossible for us. Once and for all nearly 2000 years ago. That debt was so great, that even those under the Old Covenant who were forgiven could still not enter Heaven.
Got that? Their sins were ALREADY forgiven them, but they could not enter Heaven. Why? Because the DEBT was to high.
Jesus paid the Debt to sin. But the forgiveness is separate. Jesus was forgiving sins all over the place BEFORE He died. Lots of sins were forgiven even before Christ was born. It was not forgiveness that was hard to get, it was the debt owed from the sins that could not be paid because of who was wronged. We are not equal to God. Only Jesus, the Son of God, could pay the impossible debt.
The Debt is PAID. But we still need to seek forgiveness for our sins when we commit sins. We just don't have to slaughter any goats or bulls or Messiahs any more. Even before, the goats and bulls could not pay the debt. That is why they had to continually offer them.
You answered well by saying 2000 years ago bingo!
the second question to that so you can get truth and to why I asked you this question is because if Jesus did all this for us once 2000 years ago, are we living after that date to be in the future of that once for ALL time of Jesus sacrafice and blood shed?
let me also make the question more silly and clear are we leaving in the present time as christ or the future time so the price Jesus paid is valid on the time you agree with or answer with??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Of course we are living after that time. The Debt is still paid.
But we still need to seek forgiveness for our sins. And it isn't hard. So long as we are sincere, God will always forgive us.
The Debt to Sin is PAID in full. Done deal.
Forgiveness is not a done deal. And YOU KNOW THAT.
You know how I know?
Because even you admit that when a person first comes to Christ, they must repent of their sins. If what Jesus did 2000 years ago granted automatic forgiveness for all sins, then we would not need to repent at all - Andrew Wommack even said that he believed we NEVER need to repent, not even when we first come to Christ.
But, the Bible shows clearly, even after Jesus died and rose, that sins were not automatically forgiven. People still needed to repent, even Born Again Christians STILL had to repent. I showed you the verses from Paul.
We can ask for whatever we want from God - as often as we seek forgiveness from Him, He will forgive us. But we still need to ask. And HE encourages us to do so.
Debt is paid. All of it. Once for all. All we need to do is to Repent of our sins. But we can't just repent once, we have to repent any time we have a serious sin.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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