water baptism or just belief?
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First Member
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
Does water baptism saves?Does believing and faith alone saved?
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Too bad Jesus said otherwise. Hopefully, He will understand their ignorance, but I pity the teacher who led them astray by the false teaching that baptism is not part of our salvation.
Baptism is a part of the christian walk just like reading your bibles , praying, feed the poor , love your enemies, go to church and pay tithes , give offerings and sooner or latter also get baptized or wet and etc!
one love
HOW? Baptism is not a mere "part of the Christian walk" - it signifies the beginning of the Christian walk... all of the other things you listed are "works", buddy... whether you like it or not... and they have nothing in common with baptism (which is an act credited to none other than God Almighty, and not to our own actions).
Are you thinking getting baptized is not ANY WORK?????
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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New Member
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PM
Member since 10/13/2007
Location: USA
Not by any work or effort of my own. Christ called me to baptism. Whether it is a requirement or not, let God be the judge. But I do not see why you would oppose someone's Christ-centered decision to be baptized... if it is indeed a requirement, then you are blatantly guilty of scandal, and you will be held accountable.
You seem to only know of the Baptism of John... and not of the Baptism of Christ. 
"There are water and tears; the water of baptism and the tears of repentance." -St. Ambrose“
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by acumenCry
Not by any work or effort of my own. Christ called me to baptism. Whether it is a requirement or not, let God be the judge. But I do not see why you would oppose someone's Christ-centered decision to be baptized... if it is indeed a requirement, then you are blatantly guilty of scandal, and you will be held accountable.
You seem to only know of the Baptism of John... and not of the Baptism of Christ.
I have heard of the baptism of John , but my believe and what I teach and show is the blood baptism of Christ which is eternal!
religion is making the water baptism an inward work which is really an outward testimony of what happen when a person get born again and saved by the blood of Jesus, which they get inward baptized by the blood of Jesus in their hearts which no one can see in the natural , like water baptism whiuch is natural for all to see and feel, touch and witness in the physical, not spiritual!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 11/07/2009 13:18:11
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
The Baptism of John was only a symbol of what was to come. Jesus promised that He would baptize with the Holy Spirit, which is what we see from the scriptures being given through the hands of Apostles. They do not baptize with the Baptism of John, but with the Baptism of Christ which endows us with the Holy Ghost.
John 7:37-39 "37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)" [This you knew.]
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."[This you routinely disregard.]
Acts 8:13-17 "14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."[This you keep forgetting.]
Believing is not what brings down the Holy Ghost, or else the Church would not have needed to send Peter and John to give it to them. Only those who had been baptized in Christ's Name (by men baptizing with Christ's authority, which is what "in Christ's Name" means).
With the sole exception of Cornelius and his household who received a special and unique dispensation by God because they were the first Gentiles to be baptized, no Christian receives the Holy Ghost unless they are baptized into Christ, this is what happens with water baptism.
The problem is that while you speak of spiritual things, you are unable to recognize them. You only see the physical element of baptism and not beyond it to the extraordinary gift that Jesus sends with the water.
A blind man was healed with spit and mud so that we could see that Jesus can do anything with anything. So let Christ open your eyes and see beyond the water to the Holy Ghost that becomes the living water within you.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The Baptism of John was only a symbol of what was to come. Jesus promised that He would baptize with the Holy Spirit, which is what we see from the scriptures being given through the hands of Apostles. They do not baptize with the Baptism of John, but with the Baptism of Christ which endows us with the Holy Ghost.
John 7:37-39 "37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)" [This you knew.]
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."[This you routinely disregard.]
Acts 8:13-17 "14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost."[This you keep forgetting.]
Believing is not what brings down the Holy Ghost, or else the Church would not have needed to send Peter and John to give it to them. Only those who had been baptized in Christ's Name (by men baptizing with Christ's authority, which is what "in Christ's Name" means).
With the sole exception of Cornelius and his household who received a special and unique dispensation by God because they were the first Gentiles to be baptized, no Christian receives the Holy Ghost unless they are baptized into Christ, this is what happens with water baptism.
The problem is that while you speak of spiritual things, you are unable to recognize them. You only see the physical element of baptism and not beyond it to the extraordinary gift that Jesus sends with the water.
A blind man was healed with spit and mud so that we could see that Jesus can do anything with anything. So let Christ open your eyes and see beyond the water to the Holy Ghost that becomes the living water within you.
So now you have an eucharist baptism or the water turns into a magic pool or you become Jesus in the pool or when ghetting wet??
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Evangelist, now you are just getting silly. Jesus said it, I believe it. If you want to go chase after the traditions of men, that's your problem.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, now you are just getting silly. Jesus said it, I believe it. If you want to go chase after the traditions of men, that's your problem.
This is the only silly way I see it, as you claim it!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
So you admit that you prefer chasing after the traditions of men than following the Word of God?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
So you admit that you prefer chasing after the traditions of men than following the Word of God?
Nope! remember I am not catholic so I not required to be spoon fed!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
I have never been spoonfed. But you keep trying by feeding me with Andrew Wommack.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Fifth Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/26/2008
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
So you admit that you prefer chasing after the traditions of men than following the Word of God?
Nope! remember I am not catholic so I not required to be spoon fed!
one love
Catholics being spoon fed is a Protestant misconception. I think Protestants project what they themselves do on to the Catholic Church.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 06/26/2002
yes michael... it's a claim made by many evangelicals.... who blindy accept just about any conspiracy theory that fall in their lap, who idolize tv evangelists and everything they say, and who quite frankly don't really know enough about the bible or history to come to decisions on their own about any of it... so they just get spoon fed from jack chick or their pastor or the latest video from benny hinn. roflmao..
one great example of who is really spoonfed is the bible. a catholic understands that the bible came about through tradition and therefor we accept it as inspired based on it's historical place in the church. evan accepts the bible not for any research he has done or understanding of how it came about but accepts it because it's the book he was told is the word of god by the church he first attended. thus spoon fed. now to make it appear that he is not spoon fed and to try to avoid having to accept tradition (which he doens't understand because again he was spoonfed false information about tradition) he will put on a set of the emporers new robes that the holy spirit actually told him the bible was real... which is another idea that he was spoonfed.
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I have never been spoonfed. But you keep trying by feeding me with Andrew Wommack.
No! Wommack doesn't have a water baptism teaching that I know of, but he dis say water baptism is no way a requirement !
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 06/26/2002
classic example of how evan manipulates here. faith says nothing about water baptism, only that evan is trying to spoonfeed womack... and instead of evan realizing his hypocracy (that he thinks people should be spoonfed by him and not the vatican), he makes it sound like faith has accused womack of teaching baptism. silly evan...
The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.
Flannery O'Connor
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
classic example of how evan manipulates here. faith says nothing about water baptism, only that evan is trying to spoonfeed womack... and instead of evan realizing his hypocracy (that he thinks people should be spoonfed by him and not the vatican), he makes it sound like faith has accused womack of teaching baptism. silly evan...
I didn't bring up wommack here on this thread even though he is my mentor not my pope!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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