heretic catholic purgatory exposed
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First Member
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What does the Bible say about Purgatory?"Answer: According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Purgatory is “a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/02/2011 03:43:46
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Hebrews 10:10 says that "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all"
That means that Christ does not need to be crucified again. It does not mean that we never have to repent, or that we get a free pass. The Bible is ALL about repentance. The Gospel is ALL about repentance. I don't know how you can go through the Bible and think that you don't have to repent when you sin.
We no longer need to sacrifices bulls and goats, but that does not replace the need to repent.
Being sanctified means that we are set apart, consecrated to God, and purified, made free from all sin. But this does not mean that we stay purified if we defile ourselves.
Hebrews 10:28-29 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
How does one hold the blood of the covenant an unholy thing? Well, the context of this passage is sin. It does not specify a particular sin. Certainly no one goes around saying that the Blood is unholy. But even you were to imagine that renouncing Jesus was the only sin (it certainly is A sin), then one must still conclude that sanctification is not a guarantee of salvation.
We have free will. We have a choice. God or sin. We can reject Jesus, or renounce Him, or refuse to believe He exists or died for our sins. But more often than not, we reject Jesus not by word but by deed - we choose by what we do. Obey unto righteousness or sin unto death.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Hebrews 10:10 says that "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all"
That means that Christ does not need to be crucified again. It does not mean that we never have to repent, or that we get a free pass. The Bible is ALL about repentance. The Gospel is ALL about repentance. I don't know how you can go through the Bible and think that you don't have to repent when you sin.
We no longer need to sacrifices bulls and goats, but that does not replace the need to repent.
Being sanctified means that we are set apart, consecrated to God, and purified, made free from all sin. But this does not mean that we stay purified if we defile ourselves.
Hebrews 10:28-29 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
How does one hold the blood of the covenant an unholy thing? Well, the context of this passage is sin. It does not specify a particular sin. Certainly no one goes around saying that the Blood is unholy. But even you were to imagine that renouncing Jesus was the only sin (it certainly is A sin), then one must still conclude that sanctification is not a guarantee of salvation.
We have free will. We have a choice. God or sin. We can reject Jesus, or renounce Him, or refuse to believe He exists or died for our sins. But more often than not, we reject Jesus not by word but by deed - we choose by what we do. Obey unto righteousness or sin unto death.
Must a sanctified person need to repent to be sanctified overtime they sin?
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
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They need to repent, every time, if they want to retain all the benefits of sanctification.
The priests in the OT Temple were all sancified too. Are you suggesting that they were all saved?
Samson lost his strength when he violated his covenant with God and only regained it after he repented.
Being set apart is wonderful, but the Bible also says that to whom much is given, much is expected.
Sanctification is not a get out of Hell free card. We were set apart for a reason. And freedom to live like a pagan while enjoying the privileges of being a Christian is not it.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
They need to repent, every time, if they want to retain all the benefits of sanctification.
The priests in the OT Temple were all sancified too. Are you suggesting that they were all saved?
Samson lost his strength when he violated his covenant with God and only regained it after he repented.
Being set apart is wonderful, but the Bible also says that to whom much is given, much is expected.
Sanctification is not a get out of Hell free card. We were set apart for a reason. And freedom to live like a pagan while enjoying the privileges of being a Christian is not it.
Do a catholic beliver repent to get God to forgive them of a sin or is the repentance to just close the door of satan in saying they are sorry for what they have done?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Well, the very word repentance means to turn away from sin. We confess our sin to receive forgiveness according to the Bible and that includes repentance. No where does it say that future sins are automatically forgiven. In fact, Paul stresses that many have been lost because they sinned and did not repent.
Refusing to repent of our sins not only keeps the door to Satan open, it grants us to him as we serve whom we obey.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Fourth Member
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Member since 01/17/2007
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
They need to repent, every time, if they want to retain all the benefits of sanctification.
The priests in the OT Temple were all sancified too. Are you suggesting that they were all saved?
Samson lost his strength when he violated his covenant with God and only regained it after he repented.
Being set apart is wonderful, but the Bible also says that to whom much is given, much is expected.
Sanctification is not a get out of Hell free card. We were set apart for a reason. And freedom to live like a pagan while enjoying the privileges of being a Christian is not it.
Do a catholic beliver repent to get God to forgive them of a sin or is the repentance to just close the door of satan in saying they are sorry for what they have done?
one love
2Cr 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
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2Cr 7:8 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it—for I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while—
9 I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us.
10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.
11 For behold what earnestness this very thing, this godly sorrow, has produced in you: what vindication of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what avenging of wrong! In everything you demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter.
How would you interpret this passage?
Remember, Paul is speaking to born again believers, so this isn't initial repentance to be born again.
First of all, in v. 1, how does one cleanse oneself of all defilement of flesh and spirit if one has a perfect born again spirit? What other spirit might Paul be speaking of?
Why does Paul relate cleansing our flesh and spirit to obtain perfect holiness?
What is Godly sorrow according to the will of God for believers?
Why does it say that this repentance was produced by Godly sorrow and leads to salvation?
Do you see what the effects of this repentance were?
Why does Paul say this repentance proved that they were innocent?
Would they have been proved to be innocent if they had not had Godly sorrow which led them to repentance which produced this renewed zeal in them?
What is Paul's purpose in making a distinction between worldly sorrow and Godly sorrow?
Were these Corinthians sin conscious even though their Godly sorrow which led to repentance was according to the will of God?
If you really want to pursue truth, please answer these without looking up someone else's sermons that will sweep this passage under the rug. I think these are legitimate questions to ask you in light of your views of repentance and perfect born again spirit.
edit: spelling
Edited by jdubya on 06/30/2012 11:48:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Well, the very word repentance means to turn away from sin. We confess our sin to receive forgiveness according to the Bible and that includes repentance. No where does it say that future sins are automatically forgiven. In fact, Paul stresses that many have been lost because they sinned and did not repent.
Refusing to repent of our sins not only keeps the door to Satan open, it grants us to him as we serve whom we obey.
That is only for unbelivers, and in order to try to get God to forgive your new sins take another sacrafice so that would mean the bible lied about a one time sacrificde and would be an over and over sacrafice of Christ nail over and over to a cross!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
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No. That is for believers. Unbelievers don't repent because they don't believe.
Read the Bible.
And there is no need for another Sacrifice of Jesus, any more than having Him die every 20 years for each new generation.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
No. That is for believers. Unbelievers don't repent because they don't believe.
Read the Bible.
And there is no need for another Sacrifice of Jesus, any more than having Him die every 20 years for each new generation.
Then why do you try to beg God to forgive your sins, when He done it once and for all time?
If you are asking God please to forgive your new sins you have made void the once and for all times scripture and promise to belivers which was taught in Hebrew 10!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Because the Bible says I must.
The debt is paid, but to benefit from that, we must repent of our sins, and if we sin again, we must repent again. Only the sins we have repented of are forgiven and we cannot repent of a sin that we have not yet committed, so future sins are not covered until this happens.
Why do you make void the Word of God by your tradition?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Fourth Member
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Member since 01/26/2008
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
No. That is for believers. Unbelievers don't repent because they don't believe.
Read the Bible.
And there is no need for another Sacrifice of Jesus, any more than having Him die every 20 years for each new generation.
Then why do you try to beg God to forgive your sins, when He done it once and for all time?
If you are asking God please to forgive your new sins you have made void the once and for all times scripture and promise to belivers which was taught in Hebrew 10!
one love
It is called humility. A spirit is not a one time thing.
one for all can mean once for all as in terminated but can also mean once for all as in perpetuated.
Through bigotry prejudices false assumptions & false premises Protestants are protesting a catholic church made up by Protestantism that does not actually exist.
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PM
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I would also point out that it isn't really begging, all we have to do is ask. If we are truly sorry, God will forgive us. Jesus promised this.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Because the Bible says I must.
The debt is paid, but to benefit from that, we must repent of our sins, and if we sin again, we must repent again. Only the sins we have repented of are forgiven and we cannot repent of a sin that we have not yet committed, so future sins are not covered until this happens.
Why do you make void the Word of God by your tradition?
Why do you make void of hebrews 10 it also belongs to the bible?
You do know that a sin has to be washed by the blood of Jesus , and His blood was shed only once , and not again and again, everytime you sin!
There also must be a sacrafice offered to cover that sin, but that future sins has been covered by the one time sacrafice of Christ 2000 years ago!
If you are going by your catholic tradition then that would mean Jesus has not paid the debt of all sins so no one can benefit from His blood, so none of us are forgiven of sins after we are redeemed and saved no matter how many times we try to repent and get God again to forgive us, so in that case a purgatory would have to be invented as such with would have nothing to do with Christ sacrafice and blood!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/02/2012 02:04:00
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quote:
Originally posted by michael
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
No. That is for believers. Unbelievers don't repent because they don't believe.
Read the Bible.
And there is no need for another Sacrifice of Jesus, any more than having Him die every 20 years for each new generation.
Then why do you try to beg God to forgive your sins, when He done it once and for all time?
If you are asking God please to forgive your new sins you have made void the once and for all times scripture and promise to belivers which was taught in Hebrew 10!
one love
It is called humility. A spirit is not a one time thing.
one for all can mean once for all as in terminated but can also mean once for all as in perpetuated.
A God given covevnenat or promise is once for all time true fact!
God does not go against His word!
God made that same covevnant with all man kind with the rainbow and never will have another world flood, which is a once and for all promise to all of us and for all time, no matter what!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I would also point out that it isn't really begging, all we have to do is ask. If we are truly sorry, God will forgive us. Jesus promised this.
That is not true!
Because you are asking something He can't do again and that is be nailed to the cross again, or get new blood from Jesus to get sins forgiven.
When Jesus said it is finished He meant just that, so sins is a done deal, and that made us always as believers in right standard as pefect children before God!
That is one great reason we have a awesome gospel which religion can't accept.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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