What is Historic truth how Protestant's started?
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Can we get some one that really studied why the Reformation really started and was there killings by the church before this? My reason is no one should kill anyone just because they are not part of the church. I see it as if they were not part then it is their own choosing more... baby3
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quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
quote:
Originally posted by God4me
There you go again..TELLING LIES.
Why do you always defend the evil catholicchurch with your lies??.
false accusation. next.
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The catholic church isn't God's Church, It was formed by the devil at least 300-600 year after Jesus built His TRUE Church.
poor historical knowledge and clear ignorance of facts.. next.
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The Holy Spirit gave the reformers the revelation of the Biblical truth and came out of the evil catholic church, Then because thet were a fret to the catholics authority, They catholics killed them..FACT.
again poor knowledge of history as grossly biased. probably because you only read anti catholic propaganda. but further, you aren't even a lutheran or a calvanist or an anglican.. so even you think the reformers were wrong.. if you think they were led by the HS then why aren't you a lutheran????? your not because you don't believe your own rhetoric. next.
oh thats it..? well as everyone can see, g4 once again hasn't got a leg to stand on so i'll do another shameless plug for my blog..
http://minmaxsunt.wordpress.com/2012/05/27/pentecost/
[Q]When does, "Missed heaven mike" tell lies??.
[A]Evertime he writes.
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Hi Mike, I hope you have a great day and all of you:) Blessings and Peace!!!! I herd all this from m y Baptist church and even worst from the 7th day near me they really hate the Catholic church they tell me shw is the whore and I still hang my roseries on my mirror in my car and I have my Pope Pauls on me all the time and I can say the rosery when I am driving. I did two yesturday:) One for Peace Like soomeone asked me to and one for my son to move OUT! I never thought it would be so long helping anyone to find a place or job etc.B3:) I love him but I want to continue to:)
baby3
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quote:
Originally posted by JesusChrististheTruth
Reformation occurred when some priests saw that the Catholic system went on the wrong path (unbiblical teachings, sacraments, corruption). Hence (Martin Luther) have called a reformation, he listed the things that are flawed in the Catholic system. He believed that the early church steered away from basic doctrines of the bible and it's truths, after him many others followed.
Martin Luther never found unity with the Early Church fathers either.
Sacraments are the 'wrong path'?
During the reformation period many people picked up the Bible and read it, that action threatened the Catholic Church. Because the truth is in the Bible, it's teachings and it's doctrines. Many people became protestants but they died and were prosecuted. It's sad that people had to die, just because they wanted to have the Bible as their source of truth and authority over a governing corrupt system in the early church.
People were largely illiterate.
Sacred Scripture itself says that the Church is the pillar and bulwark of Truth and that Sacred Scripture is God-breathed and is to be used by the Church for quote:
... for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Protestants killed Catholics, destroyed their Churches and confiscated their lands. The practice of Catholicism was made illegal.
*Pthere have been traditions made by man that were added in the Catholic belief,the same as rituals, sacraments. Veneration of saints and adoration of Mary that were not taught by any of Jesus nor his apostles and disciples. *
Sacraments? Man made?
Luther's faith "alone" is one man's interpretation of Sacred Scripture. Absent the remainder of Sacred Scripture and the teaching of the Apostles.
Luther "alone" renounced the Holy Spirit from five Sacraments.
Are you aware that Luther "alone" also wished to remove the Book of Revelation, the book of Hebrews, the book of James, and the book of Jude?
The reformist believed that the bible should be the sole authority and people should stay away from making it's own new doctrines and laws because it steered away from the teachings of Christ Jesus.
Sola Scriptura is unbiblical.
The Catholic Church is three-fold: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition of the Apostles, and the Magisterium.
The early church cannot be questioned in regards to their authority or their dogmas hence you will become an anathema (outcast) worse put in burning fire in front of the town crowd. So it will be an example to everyone and to those who question the Catholic Church and or its teachings.
The Early Church practices were not protestant. They were Eucharistic, liturgical, catholic, ordained, and united in one belief.
I recommend that you pick up your Bible. I'm in Australia right now and I heard that in California They started banning bible study groups at home. One day the Bible will be the most precious book ever to exist in the planet because our leaders will try to suppress it. Scary times, we are indeed in near the last days.
Before you pick up your Bible, pray to God through Jesus. John 14:6 "Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me"
You cannot go to God though the saints because only Jesus can. You can't go to God through Mary because only Jesus can, clearly as he stated.
Please, explain yourself in more detail.
As stated in Sacred Scripture, we Christian Catholics go to Christ in the Eucharist - which Christ instituted at His Last Supper; through the repentance of our sins in the Sacrament of Reconciliation - which Christ delegated to His Apostolic Church.
Now I know Catholics believe this statement " you can go to Jesus through Mary" be very careful with this belief as this teaching is not biblicaly true, it is also not found in the scriptures nor it was prophesied by any prophet, disciples, apostles not even our Lord Jesus Christ.
We pray for Mary to pray for us, "now and at the hour of our death". As she interceded to Jesus for the wedding couple at Cana.
The Trinity chose her, above all women. She and the Holy Spirit conceived of God the Son. She and the Holy Spirit were together again at Pentecost to see Peter's first gospel, the baptism of the 5,000, and the creation of His Church. God the Son gave her (Woman) to His Church from His cross.
( FACT: the Bible is THE only book that contains 30% of prophesy being fullfilled and no other religious books have this amazing accuracy)
There is not one prophesy that that the mother of our Lord will be the mediator to our Lord, the same with the saints.
Jesus is the only mediator of our sins. He alone absolves the repentant of their sins.
Saints present the prayers of humanity at the altar to God.
Jesus prophesy that many will come in his name and teach false teachings. Many will be deceived. Satan will do anything to capture your soul, he can disguise as an angel, he can also do healing and false miracles, Oh yes he can do that too. Hence he is called the father of Lies.
You have that right, His Church fought off heresy from the very beginning and has continued doing so for 2,000 years.
Surely, you're familiar with the anti-christ philosophies that are growing in the various reformation denominations?
Why paint the reformation as a gift? The moral apostasy and divisions of faith have not been a gift to Christianity.
God Bless you!
God Bless you as well, and thanks for posting.
[/quote]
Edited by bwellmysoul on 05/30/2012 10:27:30
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Guys, "protestantism" existed long before the Reformation... I mean, the Orthodox churches (easter, greek, etc) and the Catholic church were once the "State Church of Rome", and they split up, because the Orthodox churchs didn't buy into the "Pope" thing. That happened in the year 1054 (I think)... It was called the Great Schism. (you can find it on wikipedia). All those churches, like in Greece, Turkey, "Asia Minor" - the places that Paul visited - blew off the bunch that became the "Roman Catholic" church (ie, "Papists"). That disagreement went WAY back in history... it didn't just happen in 1054... Those orthodox guys were really the first "protestants" (if you want to call them that).
BTW - the orthodox churches actually believe that Peter was "this rock" that Jesus refered to in Matt 16:18 ("...you are Peter, and upon this rock..."), but they just figure he was one of many. Like, Jesus was saying "upon this rock (named Peter), AND, also, upon Matthew, John, Bartholemew, etc..." because the scripture says the church was built on ALL the apostles (Eph 2:20, I think)... So, yeh, they believe Peter was "this rock", but they don't believe he was the first Pope...
OK... Good info on all that at http://www.freetowne.com/pppk
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Jesus didn't say, "...you are Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church(es) and they will teach over 100,000 different versions of My Gospel, many will be heretical and 360 degrees out from what I taught and commissioned for My Apostles' work.
He said, "My Church."
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
Jesus didn't say, "...you are Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church(es) and they will teach over 100,000 different versions of My Gospel, many will be heretical and 360 degrees out from what I taught and commissioned for My Apostles' work.
He said, "My Church."
Jesus cannot be talking about the pope's church in that case!
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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Member since 03/06/2010
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by JesusChrististheTruth
Reformation occurred when some priests saw that the Catholic system went on the wrong path (unbiblical teachings, sacraments, corruption). Hence (Martin Luther) have called a reformation, he listed the things that are flawed in the Catholic system. He believed that the early church steered away from basic doctrines of the bible and it's truths, after him many others followed.
Martin Luther never found unity with the Early Church fathers either.
Sacraments are the 'wrong path'?
During the reformation period many people picked up the Bible and read it, that action threatened the Catholic Church. Because the truth is in the Bible, it's teachings and it's doctrines. Many people became protestants but they died and were prosecuted. It's sad that people had to die, just because they wanted to have the Bible as their source of truth and authority over a governing corrupt system in the early church.
People were largely illiterate.
Sacred Scripture itself says that the Church is the pillar and bulwark of Truth and that Sacred Scripture is God-breathed and is to be used by the Church for quote:
... for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Protestants killed Catholics, destroyed their Churches and confiscated their lands. The practice of Catholicism was made illegal.
*Pthere have been traditions made by man that were added in the Catholic belief,the same as rituals, sacraments. Veneration of saints and adoration of Mary that were not taught by any of Jesus nor his apostles and disciples. *
Sacraments? Man made?
Luther's faith "alone" is one man's interpretation of Sacred Scripture. Absent the remainder of Sacred Scripture and the teaching of the Apostles.
Luther "alone" renounced the Holy Spirit from five Sacraments.
Are you aware that Luther "alone" also wished to remove the Book of Revelation, the book of Hebrews, the book of James, and the book of Jude?
The reformist believed that the bible should be the sole authority and people should stay away from making it's own new doctrines and laws because it steered away from the teachings of Christ Jesus.
Sola Scriptura is unbiblical.
The Catholic Church is three-fold: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition of the Apostles, and the Magisterium.
The early church cannot be questioned in regards to their authority or their dogmas hence you will become an anathema (outcast) worse put in burning fire in front of the town crowd. So it will be an example to everyone and to those who question the Catholic Church and or its teachings.
The Early Church practices were not protestant. They were Eucharistic, liturgical, catholic, ordained, and united in one belief.
I recommend that you pick up your Bible. I'm in Australia right now and I heard that in California They started banning bible study groups at home. One day the Bible will be the most precious book ever to exist in the planet because our leaders will try to suppress it. Scary times, we are indeed in near the last days.
Before you pick up your Bible, pray to God through Jesus. John 14:6 "Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me"
You cannot go to God though the saints because only Jesus can. You can't go to God through Mary because only Jesus can, clearly as he stated.
Please, explain yourself in more detail.
As stated in Sacred Scripture, we Christian Catholics go to Christ in the Eucharist - which Christ instituted at His Last Supper; through the repentance of our sins in the Sacrament of Reconciliation - which Christ delegated to His Apostolic Church.
Now I know Catholics believe this statement " you can go to Jesus through Mary" be very careful with this belief as this teaching is not biblicaly true, it is also not found in the scriptures nor it was prophesied by any prophet, disciples, apostles not even our Lord Jesus Christ.
We pray for Mary to pray for us, "now and at the hour of our death". As she interceded to Jesus for the wedding couple at Cana.
The Trinity chose her, above all women. She and the Holy Spirit conceived of God the Son. She and the Holy Spirit were together again at Pentecost to see Peter's first gospel, the baptism of the 5,000, and the creation of His Church. God the Son gave her (Woman) to His Church from His cross.
( FACT: the Bible is THE only book that contains 30% of prophesy being fullfilled and no other religious books have this amazing accuracy)
There is not one prophesy that that the mother of our Lord will be the mediator to our Lord, the same with the saints.
Jesus is the only mediator of our sins. He alone absolves the repentant of their sins.
Saints present the prayers of humanity at the altar to God.
Jesus prophesy that many will come in his name and teach false teachings. Many will be deceived. Satan will do anything to capture your soul, he can disguise as an angel, he can also do healing and false miracles, Oh yes he can do that too. Hence he is called the father of Lies.
You have that right, His Church fought off heresy from the very beginning and has continued doing so for 2,000 years.
Surely, you're familiar with the anti-christ philosophies that are growing in the various reformation denominations?
Why paint the reformation as a gift? The moral apostasy and divisions of faith have not been a gift to Christianity.
God Bless you!
God Bless you as well, and thanks for posting.
[/quote]
There you go again, TELLING LIES.
Biblical tradition is the word of God, And we have it recorded in the Bible.
So how can catholics have tradition and the Apostles when they dont even believe the Bible??.
The Apostles and disciples weren't catholics, So how can you claim to be from the Apostles???. WAKE UP DOPEY.
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quote:
Originally posted by Conqueror
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
Jesus didn't say, "...you are Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church(es) and they will teach over 100,000 different versions of My Gospel, many will be heretical and 360 degrees out from what I taught and commissioned for My Apostles' work.
He said, "My Church."
Jesus cannot be talking about the pope's church in that case!
If you read Matt 16: 18 in the Greek text, You'll see that Jesus says.
"You are Petros, A stone that is easily moved or shaken, And upon Petra, A larg rock that is a firm foundation, I will build My Church"
Jesus never said He built His Church on Peter, And Peter certainly wasn't a pope.
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Protestantism did start before Martin Luther, but the Orthodox Churches are not part of what we call Protestantism. Granted they did split off.
The roots of that split that ocurred in 1054 began much earlier. And while they certainly came to dislike the papacy, it was not for the reasons many think. Way back during Constantine's time, when the Emperor moved his capital from Rome to Constantinople, the Bishop of Constantinople not only believed in the Papacy, just Catholics do today, he also thought that he would become one.
The reason for this was because the Emperor had often involved himself in the affairs of the Church, even to calling councils, the Bishop of Constantinople naturally assumed that when the capital was moved, the Papacy would move with it. When that didn't happen, of course there was some irritation over that. The Churches in the east felt isolated from the wester Church and this led to problems that came to a head in 1054. The Orthodox Church solution to the papacy issue was to make their church a national church under the secular government. That is why they now have at least 12 Orthodox Churches and not not a single Church.
Another problem they have is that while, technically, the Bishop of Constantinople can call a council (a wish granted about a thousand years too late for the previously offended Bishop), there is such a drive to have all the Patriarchs be equal and each over their own national church, that no councils have been called since that split.
We have had major upheavals in the world. So many cultural shifts and scientific discoveries that have smashed up against orthodox teaching, and the Orthodox Church has not been able to deal with this issues. But the catholic Church has. The councils continued as needed throughout the entire history of the Church, and have dealt with so many issues, and the Popes have risen to the challenge of the everchanging world.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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You call a move of God Protestantism. Unlike you, the Orthodox realised that the papacy is devilish.
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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Men should be married or live single but not all in one place and in temptation,this is wrong God made man and woman for each other period!!!Stupid gets what stupid does!
baby3
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Baby3, if one isn't gay, then living in a group is not a problem.
The majority of child molesters are married men with children. If we follow your logic, the best solution would be to ban marriage and force men and women to live in single-gender groups.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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The RCC is the larges institution on earth, in which systemic paedophilia is rife and in which these abusers are moved to new parishes, with fresh victims ready to be abused.
Roman Catholic pew warmers do their very best to make this appear as normal as possible.
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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Fifth Member
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Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by Conqueror
You call a move of God Protestantism. Unlike you, the Orthodox realised that the papacy is devilish.
The schism was actually a little deeper than that. But you know what they do consider "devilish" and unbiblical? Sola Scriptura.
The Orthodox believe "the pope's hallucinations of Mary" you are so fond of condemning, so I find it funny that you try to pitch them against us. In fact (someone, correct me if I'm wrong), I have heard that they have prayers to Mary in their Liturgy, unlike the Latin Church. So wouldn't that make them more "devilish" than us in a way, according to your logic?
"Be good, keep your feet dry, your eyes open, your heart at peace and your soul in the joy of Christ." - Thomas Merton
www.percalamus.com
Edited by acumenCry on 06/22/2012 20:44:37
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Sola Scriptura is only relying on what God has revealed and that is abhorrent to the children of the devil.
Jn 8:43-44 Why is my language not clear to you?
Because you are unable to hear what I say.
You belong to your father, the devil,
and you want to carry out your father’s desires.
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