The meaning of a christian been justified, holy !
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Dear Loved Ones of the Lord,As we continue our journey through the Book of Romans Chapters 5-6, please notice the words found in Romans 5:1."Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God, through our Lord Jesus Christ."Justified. What a fascinating word. It is more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 08/27/2011 08:08:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I wasn't referring to the modern English word. There are different words in Greek, and the one that supports your definition above is not the word that is used in the passage referenced.
When you study the bible do you use the greek in every word you read to get the greek to agree with you when there is no other hope for you, like the JW is professional in doing that??
When something is too clear and simple religious people try to use a excape goat by using other bibles , grek and hebrews even though they are niether of the ones scholars in that language!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Jesus is not dead. We are not mourning His death in a memorial dinner, we are celebrating His resurrection.
Do you know Also born again people are also not dead as such?
they are very well and alive in the real spiritual world and with the Lord now in the awesome unspeakable Glory of God!wwwwoooowww! 
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I wasn't referring to the modern English word. There are different words in Greek, and the one that supports your definition above is not the word that is used in the passage referenced.
When you study the bible do you use the greek in every word you read to get the greek to agree with you when there is no other hope for you, like the JW is professional in doing that??
When something is too clear and simple religious people try to use a excape goat by using other bibles , grek and hebrews even though they are niether of the ones scholars in that language!
one love
No. But when the Greek word is uniquely tied to sacrificial offerings and has a unique meaning that does not translate well into English, then I do take notice.
Expecially where there are other Greek words used throughout the NT that do mean what you propose in English.
There is no scapegoating going on. You are trying to impose 21st Century English onto the NT. Don't.
You never once chastised God4Me when he insisted on going back to the Greek for every little thing - not even when he was wrong.
You like the Greek when it suits you, but hate it when it goes against you.
The language used at the Last Supper, even in English, is connected to the Passover and very much connected to Christ's own Passover sacrifice on the Cross.
Paul confirms this in his own writings. This is so basic that one has to be willfully blind to miss it.
Christ's death on the Cross would be meaningless and completely ineffectual were it not for the offering up of that once for all sacrifice at the Last Supper.
And the key element of any Passover sacrifice is that it is eaten/consumed entirely by those who are participating in that sacrifice. Those that do not eat of it, are not part of it.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 06/11/2012 16:55:41
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quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Jesus is not dead. We are not mourning His death in a memorial dinner, we are celebrating His resurrection.
Do you know Also born again people are also not dead as such?
they are very well and alive in the real spiritual world and with the Lord now in the awesome unspeakable Glory of God!wwwwoooowww!
one love
Amen. Not even after they die on earth. And yet you condemn Catholics for seeking the prayers of the saints in Heaven as if you truly believed that Jesus failed and they had actually died in every sense.
Further, you engage in a memorial meal which is only ever offered for the DEAD. I celebrate His resurrection by participating in the Mass where Christ is made present for us every day, in a very special way.
I say again, Jesus is NOT DEAD, so stop having memorials for Him.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I wasn't referring to the modern English word. There are different words in Greek, and the one that supports your definition above is not the word that is used in the passage referenced.
When you study the bible do you use the greek in every word you read to get the greek to agree with you when there is no other hope for you, like the JW is professional in doing that??
When something is too clear and simple religious people try to use a excape goat by using other bibles , grek and hebrews even though they are niether of the ones scholars in that language!
one love
No. But when the Greek word is uniquely tied to sacrificial offerings and has a unique meaning that does not translate well into English, then I do take notice.
Expecially where there are other Greek words used throughout the NT that do mean what you propose in English.
There is no scapegoating going on. You are trying to impose 21st Century English onto the NT. Don't.
You never once chastised God4Me when he insisted on going back to the Greek for every little thing - not even when he was wrong.
You like the Greek when it suits you, but hate it when it goes against you.
The language used at the Last Supper, even in English, is connected to the Passover and very much connected to Christ's own Passover sacrifice on the Cross.
Paul confirms this in his own writings. This is so basic that one has to be willfully blind to miss it.
Christ's death on the Cross would be meaningless and completely ineffectual were it not for the offering up of that once for all sacrifice at the Last Supper.
And the key element of any Passover sacrifice is that it is eaten/consumed entirely by those who are participating in that sacrifice. Those that do not eat of it, are not part of it.
I am not a greek scholar so I only know and use the greek for my own benifit , not to make a twisted truth out of a doctrine of men!
When I am confused in my own personal bible study I sometime go to tje greek, but not to use it as a weapon against baby christains!
Like knowing what the meaning of the word Logos or zoe life and etc is omportant for an evangelist!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 06/12/2012 06:45:14
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quote:
When I am confused in my own personal bible study I sometime go to tje greek
Evangelist,
It's more than going to the Greek for one definition of a word. Go also to the Early Church to see what the Apostles taught and practiced in His Church.
The Early Church believed in the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Pure fact.
And then, for the next 1,500 years, the Church continued to teach and practice that Christ was present in the bread and in the wine. Eucharist is an Apostolic Sacrament.
At the time of the Reformation, most of the protestants were not priests and if they were, they were excommunicated.
So, what to do...revision Sacred Scripture and the Sacraments.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 06/12/2012 09:12:14
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quote:
How many Christians live their lives in a never ending cycle of repentance and guilt? When you hear the voice of the Holy Spirit speak to your heart that "you are justified", you know that there is nothing left to repent for (accept the thought that you need to repent)! There is nothing to seek forgiveness for. There is nothing to feel guilt about. God says you are not guilty. God says not only have the charges of the law been dropped against you through the death of Christ, but there is not even a record left that you were ever a transgressor. You are justified. Wow.
Don't you get this?
How do you reconcile your above statement with the prayer that Christ taught:
quote:
Our Father...Thy will be done...forgive us our trespasses... as we forgive those who have trespassed against us.
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PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
How many Christians live their lives in a never ending cycle of repentance and guilt? When you hear the voice of the Holy Spirit speak to your heart that "you are justified", you know that there is nothing left to repent for (accept the thought that you need to repent)! There is nothing to seek forgiveness for. There is nothing to feel guilt about. God says you are not guilty. God says not only have the charges of the law been dropped against you through the death of Christ, but there is not even a record left that you were ever a transgressor. You are justified. Wow.
Don't you get this?
How do you reconcile your above statement with the prayer that Christ taught:
quote:
Our Father...Thy will be done...forgive us our trespasses... as we forgive those who have trespassed against us.
SIMPLE! just by knowing the difference from an OT prayer against our New covenant grace with God Faith, and who has already forgiben us of all sins because of the cross.
Who was this prayer for or who was Jesus speaking too that they must say this prayer?
Was it for the people at that present time or for all people and for all times??
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
You think the "Our Father" prayer is an Old Testament prayer?
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PM
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Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
You think the "Our Father" prayer is an Old Testament prayer?
YEP!
Look at the contexts of the prayer abd compare it to what we are abd what we have and all the bread we have , and who has forgiven all our sins and trespasses, and He has delivered us from temptaions and into His glorious authority and powers 1 corthian 2:5!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
Oh My....
And how do you interpret Matthew 5:18? Christ's words there; are they also Old Testament?
quote:
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
God the Father sent His Son to forgive us of the sins which we are repentant of. No more killing sheep, goats or cattle. Christ's one sacrifice abolished the thousand of years of animal sacrifice through the High Priest.
Christ the King, established One Church and He ordained His priesthood through which - for all time - He would bring His forgiveness and His Presence into each generation to feed and tend His flock.
Repentance and absolution of our sin through discernment with the Holy Spirit preceeds our receiving Him in the Eucharist.
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
Oh My....
And how do you interpret Matthew 5:18? Christ's words there; are they also Old Testament?
quote:
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
God the Father sent His Son to forgive us of the sins which we are repentant of. No more killing sheep, goats or cattle. Christ's one sacrifice abolished the thousand of years of animal sacrifice through the High Priest.
Christ the King, established One Church and He ordained His priesthood through which - for all time - He would bring His forgiveness and His Presence into each generation to feed and tend His flock.
Repentance and absolution of our sin through discernment with the Holy Spirit preceeds our receiving Him in the Eucharist.
What do you think Math is speaking of old testament or New testament, from your catholic sola scriptura biblical side of you??
I thought at least you might disagree with me about the Lord prayer being an OT prayers as such and back up your opinion on that fact-
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 06/18/2012 10:46:00
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In all honesty, Evangelist, I get an impression from you that the Holy Spirit supercedes and nullifies all words spoken by God the Son.
Which is curious, in that the Holy Spirit enables and encourages faithful Christians into action.
Christ Jesus spoke directly to His Apostles, to His faithful and to His Church.
Interpretation of Sacred Scripture, in the Catholic Church, comes through His Church.
My personal opinion, 2,000 years removed, is irrelevant to the authentic Truth of the Gospels.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 06/18/2012 11:16:55
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
In all honesty, Evangelist, I get an impression from you that the Holy Spirit supercedes and nullifies all words spoken by God the Son.
Which is curious, in that the Holy Spirit enables and encourages faithful Christians into action.
Christ Jesus spoke directly to His Apostles, to His faithful and to His Church.
What do you think Math is speaking of old testament or New testament, from your catholic sola scriptura biblical side of you??
I thought at least you might disagree with me about the Lord prayer being an OT prayers as such and back up your opinion on that fact-
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
Matthew is not speaking.
Christ, the Son of God is speaking.
The Second Person of the Trinity said that we are to ask forgiveness from God the Father as we forgive those who trespass against us.
The mercy we give to others is the mercy we will also receive from Christ.
quote:
“Blessed are the merciful, for they will receive mercy.
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I desire mercy and not sacrifice. For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance. - Matt 9: 9-13.
Christ also spoke of this in His parable concerning the unforgiving servant.
Do you believe that all of what Christ spoke prior to His Resurrection, only applies to the Jews?
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