spirit ,soul, and body!
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I have taught on this truth and teaching so many times and I find this is not taught in many churches and would like to get others views on this important topic!I give a very good example and teaching example with curtains explaning about our born again spirits , and how more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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How is it beneficial to bounce back and forth determining who actually was "born again" ?
Let's say that on May 25,1960 Obama says he found the Holy Spirit and became "born again".
Fifty years later, he passes laws that assist in the killing of the unborn.
First, he was "born again" and now...he never was "born again".
He lost his Baptism?
You accuse Catholics of killing Christ over and over again yet how is it you aren't renouncing the action of the Holy Spirit?
He was "born again" but then opps, no he wasn't?
Catholics would say Obama isn't practicing His Baptismal faith, that he's committing mortal sin and that he's in danger of losing his soul. And his Bishop would make several visits to council his error, all the while informing him to not present himself for Eucharist. And we would all pray that he would repent of his thoughts, words and deeds in order to receive absolution of his sins in Reconciliation.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 05/30/2012 12:06:01
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Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
God judges what is in the heart.
Matthew 5:28
Matthew 6:21
Matthew 12:34-35
Matthew 15:18-19
God does indeed judge what is in our hearts.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
How is it beneficial to bounce back and forth determining who actually was "born again" ?
Let's say that on May 25,1960 Obama says he found the Holy Spirit and became "born again".
Fifty years later, he passes laws that assist in the killing of the unborn.
First, he was "born again" and now...he never was "born again".
He lost his Baptism?
You accuse Catholics of killing Christ over and over again yet how is it you aren't renouncing the action of the Holy Spirit?
He was "born again" but then opps, no he wasn't?
Catholics would say Obama isn't practicing His Baptismal faith, that he's committing mortal sin and that he's in danger of losing his soul. And his Bishop would make several visits to council his error, all the while informing him to not present himself for Eucharist. And we would all pray that he would repent of his thoughts, words and deeds in order to receive absolution of his sins in Reconciliation.
Only catholic and religious legalistic people wuld thnk on these line, because of thier carnality!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Only catholic and religious legalistic people wuld thnk on these line, because of thier carnality!
one love
I got that impression from you.
You often answer - when questioned about the actions of "born agains"-that a person who sins wasn't really "born again".
If you're "born again" and Sola Scriptura I assume you believe that you either must be Baptised or that you received the Holy Spirit with your Baptism.
If as you say, a person wasn't really "born again", and you're using that as a conclusion concerning that person's actions, then you are in effect renouncing what the Holy Spirit once made active in them.
Are you not?
Yet, if that is what you truely mean, as a way to separate sin from Baptism in the Holy Spirit, it's not biblical.
Ephesians 4:4-5: "There is one Body and one Spirit- just as you were called to one hope when you were called- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."
Please don't answer by calling me names.
Just explain your theology on Baptism in the Holy Spirit and how a person can be "born again" but then not be "born again" - in the Spirit.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 05/30/2012 15:47:21
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Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Only catholic and religious legalistic people wuld thnk on these line, because of thier carnality!
one love
I got that impression from you.
You often answer - when questioned about the actions of "born agains"-that a person who sins wasn't really "born again".
If you're "born again" and Sola Scriptura I assume you believe that you either must be Baptised or that you received the Holy Spirit with your Baptism.
If as you say, a person wasn't really "born again", and you're using that as a conclusion concerning that person's actions, then you are in effect renouncing what the Holy Spirit once made active in them.
Are you not?
Yet, if that is what you truely mean, as a way to separate sin from Baptism in the Holy Spirit, it's not biblical.
Ephesians 4:4-5: "There is one Body and one Spirit- just as you were called to one hope when you were called- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."
Please don't answer by calling me names.
Just explain your theology on Baptism in the Holy Spirit and how a person can be "born again" but then not be "born again" - in the Spirit.
First of all a person who is really born again and saved is saved by the Holy Spirit.
Second know one can see that person heart if they are saved or not as such, but God can see all that spiritually because He is Spirit!
But we can question the actions of a born again person acting like a fool if they are really saved, but no one can make that a sure judement to condemnation to hell or a purgatory, or another pit stop of the seven steps in hell to heaven like Islam purgatory has after death.
I believe you recieve the Holy Ghost in which the bible teaches before getting wet, but sooner or latter a real born again saved christian will get wet as a witness of their Spiritual baptism in Christ Jesus righteousness and justification, and sanctification, also became pure and sinless at that time because no unclean thing can enter the book of life or go to heaven, niether have eternal redemption!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Only catholic and religious legalistic people wuld thnk on these line, because of thier carnality!
one love
I got that impression from you.
You often answer - when questioned about the actions of "born agains"-that a person who sins wasn't really "born again".
If you're "born again" and Sola Scriptura I assume you believe that you either must be Baptised or that you received the Holy Spirit with your Baptism.
If as you say, a person wasn't really "born again", and you're using that as a conclusion concerning that person's actions, then you are in effect renouncing what the Holy Spirit once made active in them.
Are you not?
Yet, if that is what you truely mean, as a way to separate sin from Baptism in the Holy Spirit, it's not biblical.
Ephesians 4:4-5: "There is one Body and one Spirit- just as you were called to one hope when you were called- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."
Please don't answer by calling me names.
Just explain your theology on Baptism in the Holy Spirit and how a person can be "born again" but then not be "born again" - in the Spirit.
First of all a person who is really born again and saved is saved by the Holy Spirit.
Second know one can see that person heart if they are saved or not as such, but God can see all that spiritually because He is Spirit!
But we can question the actions of a born again person acting like a fool if they are really saved, but no one can make that a sure judement to condemnation to hell or a purgatory, or another pit stop of the seven steps in hell to heaven like Islam purgatory has after death.
I believe you recieve the Holy Ghost in which the bible teaches before getting wet, but sooner or latter a real born again saved christian will get wet as a witness of their Spiritual baptism in Christ Jesus righteousness and justification, and sanctification, also became pure and sinless at that time because no unclean thing can enter the book of life or go to heaven, niether have eternal redemption!
one love
Why do you make comments then - that if a person sins - then they weren't "born again"?
Why don't you just say they aren't living up to their Baptismal promise and to the indwelling Holy Spirit.
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Member since 11/17/2007
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I don't know that Evangelist did exactly.
His assertion is that the born again spirit is separate from our bodies and is "sealed" in a protetive layer that sin cannot touch. He says that the spiritual person is free to sin with his body as much as he wants without any affect on his untouchable sinless spirit.
He does not encourage people to sin as that could open the door to Satan and eventually lead to someone renoucing Jesus, but other than that, sin is not an issue.
He has affirmed many times on this forum that the spiritual person does not have to worry about what his sinful, fallen flesh is doing and there for adultery and abortion and theft and all the other Biblical no-nos are not markers for the born again Christian as God only sees into the heart to see if the spirit is born again or not. And if God sees a born again spirit, HE ignores everything else.
The mark of the carnal mind, according to Evangelist is the person who feels that it is necessary to resist sin in order to be saved.
So basically, all those people living good Christian lives and avoiding sin are the carnally minded because they focus on avoiding sin, and the spiritual minded are those who indulge in every base passion and breaking every commandment secure in the knowledge that God only judges their sealed off born again spirit that is off worshipping in spirit and truth.
Clear? Evangelist preaches the "too good to be true gospel".
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Think back to Martin Luther when he said essentially to let our sins be as scarlet but our faith be stronger. There is a mentality that has evolved from that where any attempt to be good is a denial of God's free gift of salvation.
Some, not Evangelist, even consider any attempt to be good to not only be a denial of God's free gift of salvation, but also a damnable rejection worthy of Hell as it would indicate a lack of faith which is necessary for salvation.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
Oh... wow.
quote:
So basically, all those people living good Christian lives and avoiding sin are the carnally minded because they focus on avoiding sin, and the spiritual minded are those who indulge in every base passion and breaking every commandment secure in the knowledge that God only judges their sealed off born again spirit that is off worshipping in spirit and truth.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Just keep in mind that Evangelist does not encourage sinful behaviour, he just does not feel that it matters.
He does admire those who think like him and live holy lives. He just objects to any link between obedience and salvation. And he has expressed worry for those who obey God out of any sense of obligation.
He beleives that the only way to lose one's salvation is to explicitly and formally renounce Jesus Christ.
But this idea that our spirits are born again first and that our bodies are not really born again until the Rapture is a bit strange.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by bwellmysoul
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
Only catholic and religious legalistic people wuld thnk on these line, because of thier carnality!
one love
I got that impression from you.
You often answer - when questioned about the actions of "born agains"-that a person who sins wasn't really "born again".
If you're "born again" and Sola Scriptura I assume you believe that you either must be Baptised or that you received the Holy Spirit with your Baptism.
If as you say, a person wasn't really "born again", and you're using that as a conclusion concerning that person's actions, then you are in effect renouncing what the Holy Spirit once made active in them.
Are you not?
Yet, if that is what you truely mean, as a way to separate sin from Baptism in the Holy Spirit, it's not biblical.
Ephesians 4:4-5: "There is one Body and one Spirit- just as you were called to one hope when you were called- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."
Please don't answer by calling me names.
Just explain your theology on Baptism in the Holy Spirit and how a person can be "born again" but then not be "born again" - in the Spirit.
First of all a person who is really born again and saved is saved by the Holy Spirit.
Second know one can see that person heart if they are saved or not as such, but God can see all that spiritually because He is Spirit!
But we can question the actions of a born again person acting like a fool if they are really saved, but no one can make that a sure judement to condemnation to hell or a purgatory, or another pit stop of the seven steps in hell to heaven like Islam purgatory has after death.
I believe you recieve the Holy Ghost in which the bible teaches before getting wet, but sooner or latter a real born again saved christian will get wet as a witness of their Spiritual baptism in Christ Jesus righteousness and justification, and sanctification, also became pure and sinless at that time because no unclean thing can enter the book of life or go to heaven, niether have eternal redemption!
one love
Why do you make comments then - that if a person sins - then they weren't "born again"?
Quote Evangelist:
We all do sins and come all short of the glory, but I am not saying they are not born again when we do sins that would first of all b silly and I am passing false judgement on that person!
The question might be from many people who is seeing a person caught in some crime as such to maybe judge them as not being a born again Christian like Hitler, and many other criminals , but God only knows the hearts or what happens before the last breath like the thief on the cross.
Why don't you just say they aren't living up to their Baptismal promise and to the indwelling Holy Spirit.
The majority is not living up to our indwelling born again spirits and the Holy Spirit in us that correct, and that is why our mind and actions should be renewed which is a process according to Romans 12:1,2!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
They will never be renewed of they think that they never have to repent of their sins and/or that sin is not an issue.
How can they be renewed if they are taught that everything Christ taught before He rose from the dead was for the Old Covenant and does not matter to born again Christians.
Repentance is so very much a part of renewal that all of the authors in the NT felt the need to mention it. Paul especially. To deny this is dangerous.
Godly sorrow brings us to repentance. This is the renewing of our mind in action. If this is not happening and people are not repenting, then there is no renewal going on and they are moving further and further away from Christ.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Just keep in mind that Evangelist does not encourage sinful behaviour, he just does not feel that it matters.
He does admire those who think like him and live holy lives. He just objects to any link between obedience and salvation. And he has expressed worry for those who obey God out of any sense of obligation.
He beleives that the only way to lose one's salvation is to explicitly and formally renounce Jesus Christ.
But this idea that our spirits are born again first and that our bodies are not really born again until the Rapture is a bit strange.
AMEN FAITH you almost got the truth in what i am teaching and preaching, in the christian gospel , but a very important part you are misunderstanding is still Locked in your mind which is an big error!
The last part of your post which I bold in blue , I finally can say Amen to that and that you finally see what i teach about our spirits being the only part saved and born again!
Praise God The the Holy Spirit and myself is making some kind of a progress in your knowledge! 
one love
!
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 06/03/2012 05:14:02
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Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
They will never be renewed of they think that they never have to repent of their sins and/or that sin is not an issue.
How can they be renewed if they are taught that everything Christ taught before He rose from the dead was for the Old Covenant and does not matter to born again Christians.
Repentance is so very much a part of renewal that all of the authors in the NT felt the need to mention it. Paul especially. To deny this is dangerous.
Godly sorrow brings us to repentance. This is the renewing of our mind in action. If this is not happening and people are not repenting, then there is no renewal going on and they are moving further and further away from Christ.
If you are seeing the repentance in a way of being sorry or disappointing God then it is a Godly sorrow we should do , like like when my kids disobey and they come to me and say i am sorry for lieing or stealing something, or fighting and etc, It make me proud of them in thier honesty and sorrows, but I will still love them the same in obedience and unobedience, and more is that say way with God with us!
i would in no means disown them as my children no matter what. but time after time i do get angry with them or I am not proud of thier disobedience and not so happy about even their school grades, but I am more than happy about them being my sons and that is a eternal relationship with them unless they renounce me as thier Father and change thier names, then they are no more my children as such under thier choice and apostate against thier own parents!
At an certain age this is all possible!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
Hello Faith at _Large
I have a big question again from the Lord to you.
Can a dead person who is burried in a grave yard still sin in any way, and is it possible??
After you aswer this We can start reading Romans 6 together in contexts under your answer as revelation knowledge of what all Paul is teaching in Romans 6.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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