spirit ,soul, and body!
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I have taught on this truth and teaching so many times and I find this is not taught in many churches and would like to get others views on this important topic!I give a very good example and teaching example with curtains explaning about our born again spirits , and how more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
James said that all sin is sin. I agree.
No sin is good. I agree.
John says that while all sin is sin, not all sin kills. I agree but you disagree. Why?
You are trying to twist 1 John 5 and you don't understand what John is really saying, and it a mind blower for you!
You need a revelation spiritual knowledge on the truth.
It is like trying to explain how a priest change the wine and bread literally into Jesus body at a mass!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
I understand perfectly.
John says that not all sin kills. What other way is there to interpret this?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I understand perfectly.
John says that not all sin kills. What other way is there to interpret this?
when Adam and Eve eat the fruit did they die instantly as was said would happen?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Who said that they would die instantly? They did die. They lost their immortality.
Are you suggesting that the Prince of all LIES is not really a liar and that we can trust him?
When John said that sin kills he was not speaking of physical death but spiritual death. The second death mentioned in Revelation. This is the only death that matters.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 07/02/2012 12:34:46
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And did you just call God a liar?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Who said that they would die instantly? They did die. They lost their immortality.
Are you suggesting that the Prince of all LIES is not really a liar and that we can trust him?
When John said that sin kills he was not speaking of physical death but spiritual death. The second death mentioned in Revelation. This is the only death that matters.
Satan is the king of deception and decieves!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Amen. So where in the Bible did it say that Adam and Eve or anyone else would die instantly if they sinned?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Now if you are trying to equate what happened in the Garden with what John was speaking of, then don't. Humans lost their immortality when Adam ate the forbidden fruit, but when John speaks of sin unto death he is not speaking of the death of the mortal body - we all die because of Adam's sin, not our own. The death we are to fear is the second death. Through Christ we have regained eternal life, but we can lose that eternal reward in Heaven if we sin a sin unto death.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Amen. So where in the Bible did it say that Adam and Eve or anyone else would die instantly if they sinned?
That is what Adam and Eve though from the deception of satan , and even thought satan told the truth because they didn't ie instantly which satan pointed out as such!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
Now can we continue in Roman 6?
Ro:6:5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Notice how this is a done deal by reading the words ( have been), and a perfect seed has been planted, and that seed is just like the seed of Our perfect Saviour also in His death we have also died, so evenagliet died year ago so the new Evangelist which is here is the new born again perfect, justified Evangelist which all brand new Holy desires, and will towards all things of God!
So my likeness is Just like Jesus in this earth, because I got up or came back again a new evangelist, in a zoe life and a SOZO life in Christ!
So do you see the same as me only this time putting your name in where my name is posted?ß
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Amen. So where in the Bible did it say that Adam and Eve or anyone else would die instantly if they sinned?
That is what Adam and Eve though from the deception of satan , and even thought satan told the truth because they didn't ie instantly which satan pointed out as such!
one love
No. That is what you assumed. It does not say in the Bible what Adam and Eve thought.
Now, what does this little sidetrack have to do with what John wrote?
John said that not all sin kills. Regardless of what kind of death you think this is, there is a distinction made. All sin is bad, and all sin is sin, but there is sin that kills and there is sin that does not kill.
So stop trying to put John in opposition with James. There is not a contradiction, but you keep trying to make one.
Not all sin kills, but some does.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Amen. So where in the Bible did it say that Adam and Eve or anyone else would die instantly if they sinned?
That is what Adam and Eve though from the deception of satan , and even thought satan told the truth because they didn't ie instantly which satan pointed out as such!
one love
No. That is what you assumed. It does not say in the Bible what Adam and Eve thought.
Now, what does this little sidetrack have to do with what John wrote?
John said that not all sin kills. Regardless of what kind of death you think this is, there is a distinction made. All sin is bad, and all sin is sin, but there is sin that kills and there is sin that does not kill.
So stop trying to put John in opposition with James. There is not a contradiction, but you keep trying to make one.
Not all sin kills, but some does.
What sin does not kill?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/09/2012 11:35:11
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Location: Canada
Venial sin. Minor sin. sin that is not unto death.
Sin is not speaking of a single sin, but of a category of sin. This is not a word that can be used in just one way. Like "fish" it can mean one fish or hundreds of fish. But when speaking of more than one species of fish, it becomes "fishes". So too with sin.
No sin is good. We should not be thinking that it is ever OK to sin even a little sin. But, only mortal sin kills. Mortal sin is the sin that kills. Again, this is a category of sin, not a single sin.
For a sin to be mortal, we have to know that it is serious. I.e. God said NO to specific sins that are repeated throughout the NT. If something gets repeated over and over and over again - that is serious.
We have to commit a mortal sin in thought, word or deed, or as you indicated before, refuse to do something we KNOW that we ought to do.
A fleeting thought that we dismiss is not a sin.
And we have to have full consent of the will. The devil can't make us do it and have it count against us. If someone is an alcoholic they might have a mitigating factor, same with someone with a mental condition. Circumstances can play a part. God is not going to judge us for what we could not control, but for what we can.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
God's Laws are written upon our hearts. We are under the law of LOVE. We do not need a list of what is minor and what is major.
What we do need is a well-formed conscience. And we can get this from the Bible and from Christ's Church.
If we borrow our neighbour's clippers without permission and put them back the next day is not the same seriousness as stealing his car and disposing of it when he needs it to get to work every day.
It isn't that hard.
The most dangerous sins, according to the Bible, are those of the flesh. Paul says that this is because these sins are against our own body which belongs to Christ, see 1 Corinthians 6.
In fact, every time when deception is mentioned, the deception is that we can commit sins of the flesh without penalty. Frequently we are told "be not deceived".
Paul even says that God will send a strong delusion on some so that they will believe a lie. Why?
Because they are "religious"? No.
Because they are trying to keep God's commandments? NO!
Because they teach that we have to keep the Commandments? NO!!!
Why?
Because they believed not the truth and took pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Unrighteousness is NOT the same thing as unbelief or rejecting Jesus. One might be because of the other and it may cause the other, it is not the other.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Venial sin. Minor sin. sin that is not unto death.
Sin is not speaking of a single sin, but of a category of sin. This is not a word that can be used in just one way. Like "fish" it can mean one fish or hundreds of fish. But when speaking of more than one species of fish, it becomes "fishes". So too with sin.
Quote Evangelist:
AMEN! I agree and if you start believeing what you wrote above then we would have a true and better lesson on romans 6 about using the word (baptism) This is not a word that can be used in just one way. Like "fish" it can mean one fish or hundreds of fish. But when speaking of more than one species of fish,there are more baptism as such, like a blood baptism, water baptism, spiritual baptism, and even mormons have a baptism for the dead.
No sin is good. We should not be thinking that it is ever OK to sin even a little sin. But, only mortal sin kills. Mortal sin is the sin that kills. Again, this is a category of sin, not a single sin.
Quote Evangelist:
That is a man made religious scale you are going by and not a Goldly law!
You can't base sins we do on a God scale period!
The sin which is singular to death is the one sin of renouncing Jesus or rejecting Him, and that is why muder, adultery doesn't realy kill our real you which is the born again spirit being!
Here is another better greek translation on 1 John 5 which might be easier for you to see what John is saying in which a religious spirit is trying to twist!
16 If you see a Christian brother or sister[d] sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it. 17 All wicked actions are sin, but not every sin leads to death.
This is why John put the sin in category to show the single sin or the IT, or one sin of renouncing or rejecting Jesus is the one sin to death!
The other sins we do don't kill the soul or bring death as sending us to a death hell, because we as His children are still adopted children in His book of Life, a sinner or a apostate person who was mature and renounce Jesus is dead, and we can't even pray them back to salvation they are foever last!
For a sin to be mortal, we have to know that it is serious. I.e. God said NO to specific sins that are repeated throughout the NT. If something gets repeated over and over and over again - that is serious.
We have to commit a mortal sin in thought, word or deed, or as you indicated before, refuse to do something we KNOW that we ought to do.
A fleeting thought that we dismiss is not a sin.
And we have to have full consent of the will. The devil can't make us do it and have it count against us. If someone is an alcoholic they might have a mitigating factor, same with someone with a mental condition. Circumstances can play a part. God is not going to judge us for what we could not control, but for what we can.
The bible say ALL sins is evil and filthy and that means no measurement before our Holy Father God who is all pure and Holy!
NOTHING unclean big or small unclean can stand before God, and that why we need a Jesus who can and did toward us and for us!
Knowing this truth will even help a person not to sin out of this too good news which we call the gospel in which religion and many churchy renoouce and reject!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/09/2012 19:38:58
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