Proof of being "once saved"
-
-
First Member
Contact:
PM
Member since 06/26/2002
I know that I've asked this on several occasions here before, but now I think it demands an actual thread..What I want to know is how to prove a person is saved. It isn't worth the time going into whether they are always saved if it cannot even be proven that a person has more...
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
quote:
One of the greatest weapona dn philosophy satan is using today is to decieve people from going to Christ and getting born again and saved is to be like a doubting Thomas to people mind and soul so they can lose it by some proof and human reasoning which cancel out faith and belief.
No, it's Christians who preach irreligion. Christians who preach against Christ's Church.
Preachers who promise Christ and then leave Christ's children in their "dirty diapers" because these preachers lack the committment required to clean the souls of people in this society.
Preachers who overpromise and underdeliver.
Unfaithful Christian preachers who make the Commandments relative and irrelevant, who make His Church irrelevant, who make Sacred Scripture irrelevant through their personal interpretation to fit their lifestyle.
Wolves in sheep clothing.
Edited by bwellmysoul on 09/11/2012 08:20:56
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
How does getting people to obey God get them into trouble?
The Bible shows that the deception we need to worry about concerns the sins of the flesh, earthly temptations.
In the OT, the great lie of Satan was that Adam and Eve could break God's Law and not pay any penalty. Guess what. Several thousand years later and he is still using the same old lie.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
How does getting people to obey God get them into trouble?
The Bible shows that the deception we need to worry about concerns the sins of the flesh, earthly temptations.
In the OT, the great lie of Satan was that Adam and Eve could break God's Law and not pay any penalty. Guess what. Several thousand years later and he is still using the same old lie.
Do you know why the laws and commandment where given and also God said you must obey everyone of them or you will not be blessed?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 09/11/2012 12:29:54
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 01/25/2012
Location: USA
Well then... are you saying the Apostles and their disciples screwed up Christ's gospel...and thankfully the Lord gave you birth to fix their mess:
quote:
Regarding the issue of whether Christians have an "absolute" assurance of salvation, regardless of their actions, consider this warning Paul gave:
"See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).
quote:
"By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother" (1 John 3:10), "If any one says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen" (1 John 4:20), "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3).
quote:
"I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified [Gk., dedikaiomai]. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4:4).
P.S. I'll keep looking Evangelist, but to date, I've not been able to find in Sacred Scripture that 3rd-person-born-again-saved-spirit-that- can-not-sin-creation you are building your eternal salvation upon.
If God doesn't build the house....
Edited by bwellmysoul on 09/11/2012 12:48:53
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
How does getting people to obey God get them into trouble?
The Bible shows that the deception we need to worry about concerns the sins of the flesh, earthly temptations.
In the OT, the great lie of Satan was that Adam and Eve could break God's Law and not pay any penalty. Guess what. Several thousand years later and he is still using the same old lie.
Do you know why the laws and commandment where given and also God said you must obey everyone of them or you will not be blessed?
one love
And, have you obeyed them all yourself? What applies to me also applies 100% to you as well.
I do try to obey everyone of the NT Laws and Commandments. They are not many and much simpler than the OT. Of course, I am not doing this to circumvent the Covenant as that would be a disaster (we cannot earn our salvation). But keeping God's Laws (civil law's like speeding are judged by men in earthly courts) are really not difficult at all.
I have kept the Letter of the Law PERFECTLY since my spiritual conversion. I have not broken a single one. And no surpise there, in the Gospel, a young man asked Jesus what must he do to be saved and Jesus told him that he must keep the Commandments (and Jesus clearly identified the Ten Commandments by listing them, not the Mosaic Law or the many Roman civil laws). The young man said that he had kept them all since he was child. EASY PEASY, no sweat of his brow. Keeping God's Commandments are so easy that anyone can do them, IF he had ANY respect for God at all. NO SWEAT.
OF course, the young man's undoing was not keeping the Commandments which are no burden at all, but his attachment to worldly stuff. To be perfect, we must not be owned by our possessions. If we are unwilling to give up all that we have to follow Christ, then we are not worthy of Him. This does not mean that we must give everything away, but we must be willing and not be attached to them. Stuff does not get us into Heaven, and often holds us back.
If I was trying to earn my way into Heaven by keeping every commandment, that wouldn't be right. We can't earn Heaven. But that is not what I am doing.
Keeping the Commandments is our reasonable service to God, it earns NOTHING. Not keeping the Commandments is another matter. To accept Jesus as LORD, and yet refuse to be subject to Him is to make a lie of our profession of faith.
I was saved when I was born again. And many times since. And if I had died when I was born again, it would not matter if that I had not yet obeyed Commandments that I was not capable of commiting yet. It would not matter if I had not achieved every Sacrament yet. It would not matter if I had not done "X" number of this or that. NO. When I was saved, this was by Grace through Faith - BOTH of which came from God.
Now did I stumble along the way? Sure. Was this a problem? Not really. Those that are in Christ are warned long before they are cast out. Godly Sorrow brings Born Again Christians to REPENTENCE, every time. It works like a charm (not literally). So as often as I wander or stumble, I get called back and I repent and I am still in the Body of Christ.
These days, when I speak of personally sinning, I am no longer talking about the Letter of the Law. I am so far beyond that it is too silly to think about. I walk after the SPIRIT, not the flesh. And I follow the SPIRIT of the Law, not the letter.
Still insanely simple. Jesus even made it easier for us - instead of worrying about this law or that, or wondering how far can I go before I break it, or looking for loopholes to get around it - no fuss at all - The Great Commandments cover them all. IF I Love God with all my heart and strength and mind, and I Love my neighbour as myself, I will naturally be keeping every Law that matters to God.
At the present, I do not harm anyone else, certainly not on purpose, but my weakness that I still need to overcome, with Christ's help, does potentially hurt me. That is something I am still working on. Most would-be saints have something to overcome before they are full-fledged saints. Some of our greatest saints had to overcome a lot worse than my petty problems, but they made it.
I am still angry at your earlier statements on the other thread, but I am calming down. I know that you do what you do in ignorance, but if you could see what I see in your words, you would understand why I called you a liar. You made your whole gospel into a lie by condemning Catholics the way that you did. But again, I believe that you did not even think through the implications of what you said. I think that you perhaps were just trying to use shock tactics - at least I hope that is what it was.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
-
-
Contact:
Member since 03/26/2010
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by mikejuli
Still waiting to hear from the others.. At least Evan tried to avoid the question, even though that wasn't going to work.
I already gave the answer what the bible teaches but you just refused it to do anything to remain a sinner untill the end!
So this thread is proof that Mike and all the other catholics here are not once saved ??
yes or no??
one love
one love
I just happened along to see what new posts there might be and walla! Evan again well this is all I can say to you Evan,Some preach a defective doctrine called"Once saved Always saved"Which purports that once one has been justified and has come under the blood of Jesus Christ, it is not possible for him to lose salvation.While this is very appealing it is also incorrect. One can fall form grace.
God shows us through Israel's experiences in the wilderness that many failed to reach the Promised Land.It is a lesson to help keep us aligned with Gods purpose and avoid falling from grace.11Corinthians 6:1 We then as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain.
11Peter 3:17 You therefore,beloved,since you know these things beforehand,beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness,being led away with the error of the wicked.
Hebrews 3:19-4:3 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.Therefore since a promise remains of entering of his rest,let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them: but the word which they herd did not profit them,not being mixed with faith in those who herd it.For we who have believed do enter in that rest,as he has said;"So I swear in my wrath,they shall not enter my rest,"although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were enlightened, that have received the heavenly gift,and have been partakers of the Holy Spirit and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,if they fall away,to renew them again to repentance,since they crucified again for themselves the Son of God,and put Him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:26-27
For if we sin willfully after we received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remain a sacrifice for sins.But a certain fearful expectation of judgement,and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Matthew 12:31
Therefore I say to you,every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men,but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
OMG Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit! I guess I was had and didn't even know it Hey Mike will I be forgiven? I was plain stupid and I did come back but I better get myself into church more often.I never knew what that meant I was taught by the Baptist church it meant to say the wasn't a Holy Spirit but that is not the whole truth it means denying his power and forgiveness and Christ,It is putting him back on the cross every time we sin over and over again.I see why you need to seek your own salvation with fear and trembling.I am so glad I came to this site:)B3
baby3
-
-
Contact:
Member since 03/26/2010
Blasphemy against the holy Spirit is the denial by the witness of his life that an individual was forgiven,received Gods Holy Spirit, and then failed to life by faith returning to a life of sin.
Mike I did not know this honest!! Will I still make it? I left the church very young and then came back three years ago but let a silly priest stop me from getting all that I needed at the service.Oh I have been dumb! Faith you were right!!!!OUCH!
baby3
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 06/26/2002
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
maybe the proof of getting saved to a catholic is when you get out of a invented purgatory.
That would be a good excape goat plan!
one love
Silly evan. I'm asking you to prove your saved. I'm not asking for your excuses or opinions about Catholics. I want you to stand by your own churchys claims and prove their doctrines with facts. Will you ever be able to give an honest answer? One that doesn't hide behind cults, conspiracies, propaganda, or sidestepping issues? I think it is clear that you are unable to prove your claim in which case you should see why the catholic makes theirs. You will never hear a catholic say of another that they were ever really saved to begin with. No one is saved one minute then not saved the next. And yet such scenarios are part of your belief system.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Baby3, when you were baptized, you received an indellible mark on your soul. You belong to God, and as long as you are willing to listen to Him, He will always call you Home.
There have been many Catholics who left the Catholic Church for various reasons, and most, in the end, do come back to the Catholic Church and are saved.
I have never given up on you, and Jesus loves you a million times more than I ever could. Trust in that.
The Bible says that as often as we repent, God is ready and quick to forgive us. There is no limit to how many times He will forgive us if we ask.
I pray that you continue in the Faith, and make use of all the wonderful gifts that the Church has for you from Christ.
God Bless you.
And FYI, you have not blasphemed against the Holy Spirit.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 09/15/2012 20:31:46
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
How does getting people to obey God get them into trouble?
The Bible shows that the deception we need to worry about concerns the sins of the flesh, earthly temptations.
In the OT, the great lie of Satan was that Adam and Eve could break God's Law and not pay any penalty. Guess what. Several thousand years later and he is still using the same old lie.
Do you know why the laws and commandment where given and also God said you must obey everyone of them or you will not be blessed?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 06/26/2002
Evan. That has nothing to do with the topic.. Please prove your not one of those people that won't end up not really saved to begin with or don't post. I want you to prove your claims, not run into the normal side issues that you run to because you cant answer a simple question.
|
|
Subscribe by Email
RSS