research and true study of Romans 6!
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First Member
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PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
Hello Faith and whosoever!let continue the study and truth of Roman 6 on this thread!Now can we continue in Roman 6?Ro:6:5: For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:Notice how this is a done more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/29/2012 07:22:32
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Evangelist. We can discuss my doctrines later - first, I want you to prove your doctrines by the same standards that you set for me.
Do not speak about Catholic doctrines or the Will of God or the True Gospel, until you have proven that your doctrines stand up to your own benchmarks.
How can I turn away from Catholic doctrines if you cannot prove your doctrines by the same means that you use to reject mine?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Now, please start with the two doctrines of yours that I asked you to prove. We cannot continue until you do.
It should be a breeze for you as surely you would not have accepted them yourself if you had not tested them against the Scriptures first. Right?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist. We can discuss my doctrines later - first, I want you to prove your doctrines by the same standards that you set for me.
Do not speak about Catholic doctrines or the Will of God or the True Gospel, until you have proven that your doctrines stand up to your own benchmarks.
How can I turn away from Catholic doctrines if you cannot prove your doctrines by the same means that you use to reject mine?
It really is not my job to prove a teaching or a gospel, it is to tell you the truth about it show the good news and you accept or reject as the holy Spirit deals with your heart!
I am not a JW remember to have to prove and debate a truth, niether as I a catholic to do that !
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Now, please start with the two doctrines of yours that I asked you to prove. We cannot continue until you do.
It should be a breeze for you as surely you would not have accepted them yourself if you had not tested them against the Scriptures first. Right?
This is why i started this thread on Roman 6 as a basic to many of my doctrines and belief which agrees with Paul teachings and God will!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Good. Then get started. Prove your doctrines by the criteria you have always imposed on me.
I have no problem if some or all of your proof texts come from Romans 6. But, since you are using your doctrines as the basis for understanding Romans 6 rather than the other way around, you need to prove your doctrines first.
So stop stalling and get to the matter at hand. No more delays. Just prove them.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Good. Then get started. Prove your doctrines by the criteria you have always imposed on me.
I have no problem if some or all of your proof texts come from Romans 6. But, since you are using your doctrines as the basis for understanding Romans 6 rather than the other way around, you need to prove your doctrines first.
So stop stalling and get to the matter at hand. No more delays. Just prove them.
I will only do by God words in context not done under a protestant or catholic philosophy!
Is this ok if we do it with bible alone Roman 6 as the key chapter mixed in contexts with many other verses with no contradition of each other like Romans 6:3,4 in line with John3:3 for instance?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/28/2012 09:18:58
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
No. We cannot proceed with Romans 6 until you deal with your underlying doctrines.
You read every verse based upon your doctrines, and determine the meaning of the verse in light of your tradition. You have done this repeatedly and have rarely if ever allowed the text to speak for itself.
So this thread must be put on hold until we deal with your foundational doctrines. If you like we can start a separate thread for this.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
No. We cannot proceed with Romans 6 until you deal with your underlying doctrines.
You read every verse based upon your doctrines, and determine the meaning of the verse in light of your tradition. You have done this repeatedly and have rarely if ever allowed the text to speak for itself.
So this thread must be put on hold until we deal with your foundational doctrines. If you like we can start a separate thread for this.
We could start a new thread on this where I can copy and paste the doctrine of my pentecostal Holy Ghost filled church with all the sriptures to show what we believe to not wait time!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Please do. It is important.
I will not be able to understand or accept your interpretations for Romans 6 if I don't have reason to believe your underlying framework.
But I do insist that you evidence match the criteria you gave for me. Fair is fair. It must be obvious and supported by a minimum of three verses or passages.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Please do. It is important.
I will not be able to understand or accept your interpretations for Romans 6 if I don't have reason to believe your underlying framework.
But I do insist that you evidence match the criteria you gave for me. Fair is fair. It must be obvious and supported by a minimum of three verses or passages.
Statement of Faith
1. We believe the Bible is inspired and empowered by God, infallible and authoritative.
2. We believe in one eternal God who exists as three separate persons; the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
3. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life as He walked among men, demonstrated the authority and power of God in works and speech, died on the cross, rose from the dead on the third day, and is now seated at the right hand of God having accomplished all that is necessary for man's salvation.
4. We believe it is essential for man to repent of sin and by faith receive the finished work of Christ by confessing Him as Lord with his mouth and believing in his heart resulting in regeneration by the Holy Spirit.
5. We believe the Holy Spirit is continuing the work He started at Pentecost empowering believers to live a godly life and continue in all the works of Jesus.
6. We believe in the imminent return of Jesus and that those who have believed in Him will be resurrected to a heavenly dwelling in an incorruptible body, and those who do not believe will join Satan and his host in everlasting punishment.
7. We believe the true Church is composed of all born-again believers in Christ, regardless of denominational affiliation.
8. We believe all born-again believers have been commissioned to share the complete Gospel to all the world.
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Amen. I agree with every point in that statement as written. So we don't need to discuss those further as they all began as Catholic doctrines that have been passed on to your denomnination and all other denominations that accept them.
But these are not the doctrines, as they are written here, that are interfering with our discussion on Romans 6.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
I have created a new thread to discuss the problematic doctrines so that you can prove them to me properly using the rules you and G4 have often imposed on Catholics.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I have created a new thread to discuss the problematic doctrines so that you can prove them to me properly using the rules you and G4 have often imposed on Catholics.
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Amen. I agree with every point in that statement as written. So we don't need to discuss those further as they all began as Catholic doctrines that have been passed on to your denomnination and all other denominations that accept them.
But these are not the doctrines, as they are written here, that are interfering with our discussion on Romans 6.
Then let on Romans 6!
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Not so fast. The statement of faith is fine, but as I mentioned, those were not the doctrines that are hindering our discussions.
We need to finish with that Proof thread unless you are prepared to either drop your rules for the formation of doctrines or those doctrines that have not met your own burden of proof.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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