1 John1:9 is so misunderstood by many churches
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1Jo:1:9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.This is sins of many plural sins and again what happen if you forget a sin or two, even sins of things we should have done and didn't??I think this more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/05/2011 09:52:01
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Originally posted by evangelist
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Let's not play games. If you have an answer of your own, provide it.
As for my answer, yes a High Priest could certainly have a heart attack, or a stroke, or pass out from the heat, or have a seizure, or any one of a number of medical issues that would require his removal from the Holy of Holies.
It is also possible to be struck dead if he displeased God. But that does not mean that the Holy of Holies could not be defiled. The Romans defiled it, and so did the Babylonians. And those that were not ordained to enter the Holy of Holies stayed out so as not to defile it themselves, although the thought of possibly being struck dead was also a deterent.
Can someone defile God and Christ, or the Holy Spirit ???
No. But many have and did defile His Temple. This can be done. Both with respect to the Temple at Jerusalem and with our own bodies.
1 Corinthians 3:16-18 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
Paul affirms that yes we can defile the Temple of God which is our BODY. The Temple is Holy, and it can still be defiled and God will destroy those that do this.
The Holy Spirit resides in your Body, not your spirit. The Holy Spirit bears witness with your spirit which is in your body. Your body IS the Temple, not some secret place inside. And before you go into any nonsense about three parts and only the Holy of Holies deep inside is sealed - remember that when Christ died the Temple veil that separated the Holy of Holies from people was torn away. There is no more separation of the Holy of Holies from the rest of the Temple. Jesus destroyed that separation forever.
And even before that happened, I already told you, the Holy of Holies itself was defiled many times. The Holy of Holies is NOT GOD, it is where God comes to visit. And if it is defiled, HE won't come except to destroy it.
After seeing your answer on this question , I will deal more deeper on 1 John 1:9, in which I did an whole reseach and study on the truth of 1 John specially a very deep close study and research on the first 3 chapters on 1 John! wwwooowwww 
one love
I look forward to your response to what I have written.
I have been studying the Bible for many decades, so it will be interesting to see what you do to the first three chapters in 1 John.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
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Originally posted by evangelist
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Let's not play games. If you have an answer of your own, provide it.
As for my answer, yes a High Priest could certainly have a heart attack, or a stroke, or pass out from the heat, or have a seizure, or any one of a number of medical issues that would require his removal from the Holy of Holies.
It is also possible to be struck dead if he displeased God. But that does not mean that the Holy of Holies could not be defiled. The Romans defiled it, and so did the Babylonians. And those that were not ordained to enter the Holy of Holies stayed out so as not to defile it themselves, although the thought of possibly being struck dead was also a deterent.
Can someone defile God and Christ, or the Holy Spirit ???
No. But many have and did defile His Temple. This can be done. Both with respect to the Temple at Jerusalem and with our own bodies.
1 Corinthians 3:16-18 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
Paul affirms that yes we can defile the Temple of God which is our BODY. The Temple is Holy, and it can still be defiled and God will destroy those that do this.
The Holy Spirit resides in your Body, not your spirit. The Holy Spirit bears witness with your spirit which is in your body. Your body IS the Temple, not some secret place inside. And before you go into any nonsense about three parts and only the Holy of Holies deep inside is sealed - remember that when Christ died the Temple veil that separated the Holy of Holies from people was torn away. There is no more separation of the Holy of Holies from the rest of the Temple. Jesus destroyed that separation forever.
And even before that happened, I already told you, the Holy of Holies itself was defiled many times. The Holy of Holies is NOT GOD, it is where God comes to visit. And if it is defiled, HE won't come except to destroy it.
After seeing your answer on this question , I will deal more deeper on 1 John 1:9, in which I did an whole reseach and study on the truth of 1 John specially a very deep close study and research on the first 3 chapters on 1 John! wwwooowwww
one love
I look forward to your response to what I have written.
I have been studying the Bible for many decades, so it will be interesting to see what you do to the first three chapters in 1 John.
First of all I am so glad you told the truth about NO! Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit can Not be defile, which say plenty!
By you say NO! even proves to me I was correct in what I was saying only you have to see this spiritually and you will see why I said about how the Holy of Holies can't be defled, but you only see this carnally, so you are not ready to see the greater level which I am talking about!
Maybe meditate on your answer and somewhere will make a click, and you will say AMEN to what I have said!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 05/24/2012 15:35:13
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The Holy of Holies can be defiled.
I showed you before that the original Holy of Holies was defiled more than once.
There is no looking at it "spiritually" to get a different answer. If a spirit is telling you something that the Bible does not say, then the spirit is lying to you.
Not all spirits are from God.
The temple veil that separated the Holy of Holies from the people has forever been torn down. There is no more Holy of Holies. ONLY the Temple that we are.
And the Bible says plainly and clearly that this Temple is not only capable of being defiled, it says that God will destroy the one who does this.
Evangelist, the carnal mind wants a separately sealed spirit to justify sinning in the flesh. The Bible says no. This is not true.
Satan lures through the flesh. He always did. Do you not understand that?
Even in the OT, the unbelievers revelled in sin. Satan always worked that way.
The biggest lie that Satan ever told was that we would not die if we disobeyed God.
Same lie today too. It always works. Do not be deceived.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The Holy of Holies can be defiled.
I showed you before that the original Holy of Holies was defiled more than once.
There is no looking at it "spiritually" to get a different answer. If a spirit is telling you something that the Bible does not say, then the spirit is lying to you.
Not all spirits are from God.
The temple veil that separated the Holy of Holies from the people has forever been torn down. There is no more Holy of Holies. ONLY the Temple that we are.
And the Bible says plainly and clearly that this Temple is not only capable of being defiled, it says that God will destroy the one who does this.
Evangelist, the carnal mind wants a separately sealed spirit to justify sinning in the flesh. The Bible says no. This is not true.
Satan lures through the flesh. He always did. Do you not understand that?
Even in the OT, the unbelievers revelled in sin. Satan always worked that way.
The biggest lie that Satan ever told was that we would not die if we disobeyed God.
Same lie today too. It always works. Do not be deceived.
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Evangelist, as often as we sin, we can return to Christ through repentance. He made provision for us. He will not abandon us.
But, frequently in the NT we are told to not be deceived. Not once was the deception linked to obedience. In every case we were warned against the temptations of the flesh.
Satan cannot snatch us from Christ's hand. Satan does not have that power. All he can do is lure us away through temptation. The Bible tells us what to watch for and how to defend against this.
But you keep spreading the message that obedience and legalism is the sin we are to avoid. Wrong message. Not once, anywhere, did Jesus ever condemn anyone for doing what He asked. Not once.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Evangelist, as often as we sin, we can return to Christ through repentance. He made provision for us. He will not abandon us.
But, frequently in the NT we are told to not be deceived. Not once was the deception linked to obedience. In every case we were warned against the temptations of the flesh.
Satan cannot snatch us from Christ's hand. Satan does not have that power. All he can do is lure us away through temptation. The Bible tells us what to watch for and how to defend against this.
But you keep spreading the message that obedience and legalism is the sin we are to avoid. Wrong message. Not once, anywhere, did Jesus ever condemn anyone for doing what He asked. Not once.
Pay attention this time FAITH!
I alway said sin is not an issue , but still is dangerious to play with because it open the door to satan kingdom to bring death or sickness quioker and poverty and depression!
It also is not a good witness before men, but as long as you have not renounce or rejected Jesus , as you trusting Father you are still in the book of eternal life!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
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Pay attention, Evangelist. IF sin were not an issue, Adam and Eve would still be in Eden.
God does not change.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
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Satan was the first to say that sin was not an issue. His lie persists.
If we open the door to Satan, we belong to him. That simple.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Now lets go back to 1 John 1:9.
John was writing to born again Christians who may have been struggling with a Gnostic heresy.
Is heresy a differend kind of sin that adultery, meriting a different response from Born Again Christians?
You seem to be claiming that Born Again Christians do have to repent if they are struggling with any misunderstanding of the Gospel, but not for committing any other kind of sin. Why is that?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Pay attention, Evangelist. IF sin were not an issue, Adam and Eve would still be in Eden.
God does not change.
True! God does not change, but praise God the covenant have change to a better one, and we have in that NT Covenenat grace and faith, and the anointing in us and not on us like in the OT covenant!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Then you admit that sin IS still an issue?
We do have a better Covenant. And so long as we keep it, we are are saved.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Then you admit that sin IS still an issue?
We do have a better Covenant. And so long as we keep it, we are are saved.
other wise!
NO! because it is only a issue to those who are sin conscious, but I am righteousness and holy and sanctified conscious , and no time to think.
So long as you keep trusting in Jesus you are saved and redeemed in your new spirit!
ine love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Either it is an issue, or it isn't.
In Hebrews, the author was not saying that born again Christians should not be conscious of sin, but that under the OT, they still had their old sins on their conscience because sacrificing an animal was not enough to take their sins away.
When we are born again all our past sins are forgiven and forgotten and those sins we need not have on our conscience because they are gone and forgotten.
Sins that are forgiven need not be on our conscience. But awareness of sin is not the same thing at all.
Adam and Eve lost paradise because of one sin. They were not sin conscious and until that one sin, they did not have sin on their conscience either.
God does not change.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Either it is an issue, or it isn't.
In Hebrews, the author was not saying that born again Christians should not be conscious of sin, but that under the OT, they still had their old sins on their conscience because sacrificing an animal was not enough to take their sins away.
When we are born again all our past sins are forgiven and forgotten and those sins we need not have on our conscience because they are gone and forgotten.
Sins that are forgiven need not be on our conscience. But awareness of sin is not the same thing at all.
Adam and Eve lost paradise because of one sin. They were not sin conscious and until that one sin, they did not have sin on their conscience either.
God does not change.
You are starting to get on the right foot or on the right track in what you first stated, but to make you statement truth about we need to be sin conscious of all our future sins is that you would have to call Paul a liar and the word of God is false and not inspiried by God or contradict itself specailly for starts in Roman 81, and I can quote many , many other verses and even whole chapter to verify the truth you should be free in deed from al our sins specially our future sin if you are born again and know who you are IN Christ Jesus . Put Roman 8 :1 is very clear and the whole chapter of Roman 6 is the whole teacjing why all our sins even future sins can't be a issue or on our conscious no more after you got born again by the spirit of God!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
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No they don't. Read those chapters again.
You are confusing two words - conscience and conscious. These do not mean the same thing and the differenc puts you in peril. Look them both up. And when you understand what they mean, then you will understand Hebrews 10 so much better, and so too with Romans.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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