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The only unpardonable sin renouncing Jesus!

Posted on 07/20/2012 at 08:54:28  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
I would like to start this thread specially on this topic about the only sin which send a person to hell is renouncing Jesus as thier Lord or rejection of Jesus because of unbelief and that is why sins in general is not the issue!Sinner and unbeliever are already condemned more...
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/20/2012 09:42:15
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Posted on 01/04/2013 at 17:18:50  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
No. At the end our body will become Glorifed - raise Incorruptable, but it has already become the seed that will be changed in the end.

The Bible says ALL has become new, not some now and the rest later.

And the Bible does not say that your spirit gets replaced by the spirit of Jesus. It says that the Spirit of Jesus comes to visit us in our hearts, not replace what HE gave us before.

The Holy Spirit comes to dwell in us, but again, not to replace what we have. But to bear witness with what we have.


Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Our spirit is still in our bodies where it belongs. God's Spirit comes to bear witnes WITH our spirit, not replace it.

Galatians 4:5-7 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


There is no "replacing" going on here.


Romans 8:10-12 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.


All Born Again Christians receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. But this is not a replacment of our spirit.

Your spirit is what goes to Heaven or Hell - it is you. If your spirit got killed, guess what? That means that YOU are dead and your flesh merely lives on as an automaton animated by Jesus, no longer you.

Of course Jesus Spirit will go to Heaven. But that Spirit is not you. It does not have your identity, your memory or your personality. It is Jesus pure and simple.

Now here is how you tell if you have your own spirit of if it was replace by Jesus' spirit - if you cease to commit sins completely and obey God perfectly all the time - then perhaps you really do have Jesus' spirit.

If not, then it didn't happen. Your spirit is what animates YOU. You cannot do anything without your spirit. So if your bad spirit got sent to Hell without your body (spirits are immortal so it can't actually die), then your body would only do what Jesus Spirit will have it do. Obey the Father, in all things, perfectly.

After all, Did Jesus sin? If He did not sin in his body, then why would Jesus sin in your body?
Pax et Bonum,

Faith_at_Large


"If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema."
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Posted on 01/04/2013 at 17:29:21  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
Some more verses for consideration:


1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Our body and spirit belong to God.


1 Thessalonians 5:23 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If born again spirits are already perfect and sinless, why does Paul pray that the spirits, along with the bodies and souls of his audience are preserved blamelness unto the coming of our Lord?

And if it does not matter if our soul and body are kept clean due to having perfect spirits, when why does Paul think that it is such a good thing - and possible.


Romans 8:12-14 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


If Born Again Christians live after the flesh, they shall die the second death and go to HELL.

Paul was writing to Christians, not unbelievers. And living after flesh means engaging in the sins of the flesh. Those who are led by the Spirit of God, will deny their flesh and live righteously, not just claim it, but demonstrate it in the flesh.
Pax et Bonum,

Faith_at_Large


"If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema."
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Posted on 01/06/2013 at 12:37:13  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

No. At the end our body will become Glorifed - raise Incorruptable, but it has already become the seed that will be changed in the end.

The Bible says ALL has become new, not some now and the rest later.

And the Bible does not say that your spirit gets replaced by the spirit of Jesus. It says that the Spirit of Jesus comes to visit us in our hearts, not replace what HE gave us before.

The Holy Spirit comes to dwell in us, but again, not to replace what we have. But to bear witness with what we have.


Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Our spirit is still in our bodies where it belongs. God's Spirit comes to bear witnes WITH our spirit, not replace it.

Galatians 4:5-7 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


There is no "replacing" going on here.


Romans 8:10-12 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.


All Born Again Christians receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. But this is not a replacment of our spirit.

Your spirit is what goes to Heaven or Hell - it is you. If your spirit got killed, guess what? That means that YOU are dead and your flesh merely lives on as an automaton animated by Jesus, no longer you.

Of course Jesus Spirit will go to Heaven. But that Spirit is not you. It does not have your identity, your memory or your personality. It is Jesus pure and simple.

Now here is how you tell if you have your own spirit of if it was replace by Jesus' spirit - if you cease to commit sins completely and obey God perfectly all the time - then perhaps you really do have Jesus' spirit.

If not, then it didn't happen. Your spirit is what animates YOU. You cannot do anything without your spirit. So if your bad spirit got sent to Hell without your body (spirits are immortal so it can't actually die), then your body would only do what Jesus Spirit will have it do. Obey the Father, in all things, perfectly.

After all, Did Jesus sin? If He did not sin in his body, then why would Jesus sin in your body?



The ALL is all of your brand new spirit which was born from God not born from your mother womb!
Your born again spirit is the one which was sealed Eph 1:13 not your soul and body sealed!
It is the one which can not sin is a born again spirit!

one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Posted on 01/06/2013 at 14:20:44  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
No. All of you is ALL of you. YOU are more than your spirit.

And the seal is not like a tomb seal, it is the seal of OWNERSHIP, and according to the Bible, God OWNS all of us - body, mind and spirit.

If you would PLEASE look at more than just a fragmentary verse for your doctrines, things would make much more sense:


Ephesians 1:13-14 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


The PURCHASED possession is the meaning of the seal. And the most common usage of that word. So stop pretending that your spirit is a tomb - the other usage of that word.

Seal of PURCHASE. MARKED for ownership. Not stuffed into a tomb and sealed. Although for one who truly believes that God goes around MURDERING us and replacing us with His Son so that His Son goes to Heaven and we go to HELL, the tomb analogy fits.

After all WE are our SPIRIT, so if OUR SPIRIT gets killed and replaced with Jesus' SPIRIT, then JESUS, not us, gets saved and goes to Heaven, and WE go to Hell or some other place for unredeemed spirits.

The Spirit we were born with is US. Got it. The flesh that surrounds our spirit is just something our SPIRIT (US) walks around in. Our Soul in united with our SPIRIT so completely that it is impossible to separate the two. God can do this, but there is no place in the Bible that says HE actually would do this.
Pax et Bonum,

Faith_at_Large


"If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema."
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Posted on 01/06/2013 at 14:24:36  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

No. All of you is ALL of you. YOU are more than your spirit.

And the seal is not like a tomb seal, it is the seal of OWNERSHIP, and according to the Bible, God OWNS all of us - body, mind and spirit.

If you would PLEASE look at more than just a fragmentary verse for your doctrines, things would make much more sense:


Ephesians 1:13-14 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


The PURCHASED possession is the meaning of the seal. And the most common usage of that word. So stop pretending that your spirit is a tomb - the other usage of that word.

Seal of PURCHASE. MARKED for ownership. Not stuffed into a tomb and sealed. Although for one who truly believes that God goes around MURDERING us and replacing us with His Son so that His Son goes to Heaven and we go to HELL, the tomb analogy fits.

After all WE are our SPIRIT, so if OUR SPIRIT gets killed and replaced with Jesus' SPIRIT, then JESUS, not us, gets saved and goes to Heaven, and WE go to Hell or some other place for unredeemed spirits.

The Spirit we were born with is US. Got it. The flesh that surrounds our spirit is just something our SPIRIT (US) walks around in. Our Soul in united with our SPIRIT so completely that it is impossible to separate the two. God can do this, but there is no place in the Bible that says HE actually would do this.



There is a natural birth everyone goes through ad the second one when you go by faith is a spiritual birth, which is so clear in John expalined and even nicodimus had to be taught the differance!

one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Posted on 01/06/2013 at 15:17:43  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
Yes. And when we are born again, we don't need to get all new parts. This is a spiritual REbirth, not a murder of our old spirit and a substitution.

When we are born the first time, we don't get a new spirit. We got our spirit when we were conceived, not when we were born.
Pax et Bonum,

Faith_at_Large


"If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema."
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Posted on 01/06/2013 at 15:24:54  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

Yes. And when we are born again, we don't need to get all new parts. This is a spiritual REbirth, not a murder of our old spirit and a substitution.

When we are born the first time, we don't get a new spirit. We got our spirit when we were conceived, not when we were born.



NO! that is why our second born again spirit came from above not from this earth!
read 1 John 3:9
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Posted on 01/06/2013 at 16:18:34  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
1 John 3:9

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

9 Whosoever is born of God, commmitteth not sin: for his seed abideth in him, and he can not sin, because he is born of God.

Where does it say that our spirit is replaced with God's spirit?

It says that Christ comes to abide in us as we abide Him.

Those who are born of God can not sin, just as Jesus can not sin.

So why can you not sin?

All who are born of God have it within themselves through Christ and the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit to resist sin. God says so.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:


James 1:12-14 12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.


But again, this does not say anything about our original Spirit (which is US) being taken out and replaced by another.

It says that Christ abides in us. And if Christ's Spirit is in us, then we won't commit sin will we? Christ came in the FLESH, and while He was in the Flesh, He did not sin. So if HIS Spirit is in our flesh, He will not allow our flesh to engage in sinful actions either.

So if you are allowing your flesh and blood body to engage in sin, don't say you have Jesus' Spirit. The Bible calls B.S. on that notion.

If you are in Christ and HE is in you, you have the ability to do the Will of the Father, not just on paper (Legal Declaration), but in reality.

Your spirit IS YOU. If your Spirit has been murdered and tossed away - then God has murdered YOU and tossed YOU away and inhabited your body like an Avatar - that is a PAGAN concept, not a Christian doctrine.

And further, if it could be true, then your newly inhabited body by Christ would not commit any sins at all because Christ just wouldn't do that would HE?

I told you how to test your theory before. Did you pass?

The test is whether you were able to live your entire Born Again life without committing any sins. If yes, then perhaps your body really is now Jesus now and the old spirit that was the original you is really is tossed into the place of the unredeemed dead.

But if you have committed any sins at all since comming to Christ, then your spirit was NOT replace by Christ's own Spirit, and it is merely that Christ's Spirit abides in you as He does in me.
Pax et Bonum,

Faith_at_Large


"If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema."
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Posted on 01/07/2013 at 14:44:13  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

1 John 3:9

Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

9 Whosoever is born of God, commmitteth not sin: for his seed abideth in him, and he can not sin, because he is born of God.

Where does it say that our spirit is replaced with God's spirit?

It says that Christ comes to abide in us as we abide Him.

Those who are born of God can not sin, just as Jesus can not sin.

So why can you not sin?

All who are born of God have it within themselves through Christ and the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit to resist sin. God says so.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:


James 1:12-14 12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.


But again, this does not say anything about our original Spirit (which is US) being taken out and replaced by another.

It says that Christ abides in us. And if Christ's Spirit is in us, then we won't commit sin will we? Christ came in the FLESH, and while He was in the Flesh, He did not sin. So if HIS Spirit is in our flesh, He will not allow our flesh to engage in sinful actions either.

So if you are allowing your flesh and blood body to engage in sin, don't say you have Jesus' Spirit. The Bible calls B.S. on that notion.

If you are in Christ and HE is in you, you have the ability to do the Will of the Father, not just on paper (Legal Declaration), but in reality.

Your spirit IS YOU. If your Spirit has been murdered and tossed away - then God has murdered YOU and tossed YOU away and inhabited your body like an Avatar - that is a PAGAN concept, not a Christian doctrine.

And further, if it could be true, then your newly inhabited body by Christ would not commit any sins at all because Christ just wouldn't do that would HE?

I told you how to test your theory before. Did you pass?

The test is whether you were able to live your entire Born Again life without committing any sins. If yes, then perhaps your body really is now Jesus now and the old spirit that was the original you is really is tossed into the place of the unredeemed dead.

But if you have committed any sins at all since comming to Christ, then your spirit was NOT replace by Christ's own Spirit, and it is merely that Christ's Spirit abides in you as He does in me.



What is the seed mention in that verse?

one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Posted on 01/07/2013 at 15:08:24  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
quote:
NO! that is why our second born again spirit came from above not from this earth!
read 1 John 3:9


He's talking about the Holy Spirit indwelling each Christian.

quote:
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, Who is in you, Whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.


Prefigured in the Torah, when the Shekinah Glory entered the tent of meeting and made it a holy Tabernacle with God.
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Posted on 01/07/2013 at 22:15:14  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
The answer to your question about the seed is more complicated than just the one verse. Verse 9 alone would be taken strictly in the literal sense - Jesus is the Son of the Father. The Father's "seed" is in the Son and that is why Jesus does not sin. We are not Jesus.

BUT, if we look at the Parables of the Sower in Matthew 13, there is another reference to "seed" in a different sense that parallels the surrounding passage from 1 John 3. The Sower is Jesus Christ, and the seed is at times the Gospel that is sown, as well as the Children of God who receive this and keep it.

Jesus abides in us as we abide in Him, see John 15. But not as a replacement for our own spirit. Otherwise, as seen in John 15, we would be in a right pickle should we cease to abide in Christ and He is us. John 15 shows that we can be cut off and burned.

Pax et Bonum,

Faith_at_Large


"If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema."
Edited by Faith_at_Large on 01/07/2013 22:18:12
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Posted on 01/08/2013 at 04:51:19  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large

The answer to your question about the seed is more complicated than just the one verse. Verse 9 alone would be taken strictly in the literal sense - Jesus is the Son of the Father. The Father's "seed" is in the Son and that is why Jesus does not sin. We are not Jesus.

BUT, if we look at the Parables of the Sower in Matthew 13, there is another reference to "seed" in a different sense that parallels the surrounding passage from 1 John 3. The Sower is Jesus Christ, and the seed is at times the Gospel that is sown, as well as the Children of God who receive this and keep it.

Jesus abides in us as we abide in Him, see John 15. But not as a replacement for our own spirit. Otherwise, as seen in John 15, we would be in a right pickle should we cease to abide in Christ and He is us. John 15 shows that we can be cut off and burned.







That is why the bible says His seed is in us and we in Him and you can't accept that because iot will show your catholic error in really who you can be and really be saved and have redemption, and be justified and sanctified!

one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Posted on 01/08/2013 at 10:01:42  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  1

Evan, in order for your 'too good gospel' to work, you attempt to stuff 3/4's of the New Testament into the Old Testament, then you redirect His Gospel messages toward the 'unsaved', and yet even then there's enough Truth remaining to render the whole of your gospel false.

The OSAS idea was fabricated in the 1500s and I'm afraid that others have developed the 'too good gospel' as a way to fill seats and pockets.

We are personally responsible for our thoughts, words, deeds and works. The Holy Spirit indwells each of us and guides us toward Jesus and Jesus heals the repentant who follow His Commands.

If Christians persist in their unrepentance, they aren't of God.

Personal daily examination of conscience with the Holy Spirit, repentance and absolution of sin through Christ is the way that Christians "put on the full armour of God".


How does an unrepentant Christian "put on the full armour of God" when they will not convert from sin?

quote:
Put on all of God's armor so that you will be able to stand firm against all strategies of the devil.



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Posted on 01/08/2013 at 10:45:56  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
So explain what the seed which is in a born again christian ho does it get in Him and do you think it is some plant seed from a love flower Lorriane?

one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 01/08/2013 10:46:46
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Posted on 01/08/2013 at 12:58:28  |  Reply  |  Report Abuse |  0
The Greek word for see in that verse is "sperma" from which we get "sperm" - literially, Jesus is Begotten of the Father. The Father is in Christ just as Christ is in the Father.

Biology lesson - your father impregnated your mother and made you. YOU are the result of the seed of your father planted in your mother.

So, no not some love flower.

The Bible sometimes gets a little graphic, but God isn't an old fuddy-duddy.

However, Jesus does do a play on words when speaking of us as Children of God. He sows seed again, but not as a Father, but more like a Farmer who sows seeds in a field to grow up.

The seed that Jesus sowed was His Gospel. And those that accepted His gospel and kept it have become children of God.

You have not accepted His Gospel. You created your own.
Pax et Bonum,

Faith_at_Large


"If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema."
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