Should clergy be allowed to marry?
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Hello, I have been a firm believer that clergy should be able to share their lives with the opposit sex, being that it is a normal thing to do. No man is an island unto him self!If he chooses on his own not marry to then that's a choice but it has not worked out the way more... Freedom!
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Originally posted by lacy-1
Are you condoning this? If you are you are no better then them! You very conviently came up with all the evidence to serve these people and make your point and i do get it, If this is how the Catholic's believe then you can have your religion. And you are not the only Catholic who thinks like this and excepts this, I could name a few. I don't hate these people but i would not sup with them or hang around with them. "Do not be unevenly yoked with unbelivers" But in your eyes I would be the unbeliever not them. lacy-1
I do not condone this, and the Catholic Church in my country has actively condemned this, but I live in a country where God has been booted out of our government. God is being removed from all facets of the American government too. Are you condoning it?
There was a time when the Catholic Church had more influence and authority, but now for a Catholic politician to be elected in North America he or she must make it absolutely clear to the voters that he or she will not let any Catholic ideas influence his or her politics - this means that Catholic politicians in both the US and Canada have been responsible or at least complicit for abortion becoming legal, gay marriage, and a whole host of other problems that their Church denounces. Basically they sold their soul for power.
Of course, not all of this is happening under Catholic politicians. We have had a lot of Protestants in power, and even a few other groups as well. Canada is a secular country that wants to prove how open-minded she can be, but this is at the expense of common sense and decency.
I was not showing you evidence of anything good, only what can happen very quickly if good men and women are not vigilent.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Originally posted by TheSword
Jesus never forbade marriage. The apostles except for Paul were married. Paul said celibacy is a gift and not all men have this gift. He said for those who cannot control themselves. its better to marry than burn in hell. The roman catholic church established the celibacy rule and it has resulted in countless perversity and scandals.
On the contrary, the perversity and scandals that have cropped up in the Catholic Church are not unique - they also occur amongst Protestants, Jews, and Muslims.
The Catholic Church does not forbid marriage, if a man is truly called to the priesthood, he is capable of being chaste. If he does not feel that he can be chaste and celibate, then there is no requirement for him to enter that vocation.
And why are only priests singled out? Catholics have a number of vocations that are celibate, only one is the Priestly vocation.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
quote:
Originally posted by TheSword
Jesus never forbade marriage. The apostles except for Paul were married. Paul said celibacy is a gift and not all men have this gift. He said for those who cannot control themselves. its better to marry than burn in hell. The roman catholic church established the celibacy rule and it has resulted in countless perversity and scandals.
On the contrary, the perversity and scandals that have cropped up in the Catholic Church are not unique - they also occur amongst Protestants, Jews, and Muslims.
The Catholic Church does not forbid marriage, if a man is truly called to the priesthood, he is capable of being chaste. If he does not feel that he can be chaste and celibate, then there is no requirement for him to enter that vocation.
And why are only priests singled out? Catholics have a number of vocations that are celibate, only one is the Priestly vocation.
FAITH i REALY DON'T SEE HOW IT COULD BE AS BAD IN THE pROTESTANT CHUTCH As in the Catholic I do not see the Protestants getting sued all the time etc and their are no nun's and priests everyone believes in God AND DOES WHAT THEY ARE TOLD BY GOD, ":bECOME MANY, BE FRUITFUL;, AND MULTIPLY AND SUBDUE THE EARTH. No one is perfect but you your self knows that if you are told never to look back all day long , the mind works the opposit and all you will want to do is look back all day. You cannot change the laws of god or gravity.We were made to bring forth all that God wants us to bring forth, not stop what he gave as a gift. You can still be close to God AND BE MARRIED AND HAVE A MINISTRY etc What catholics do is unnatural because of Paul, well that was one of his things but not of Gods things as much. God never demanded this in a way it is the same as contraceptive, you do not pro create. lacy-2
Freedom!
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TheSword and Lacy-1, you might want to inform yourselves before you go on singling out the Catholic Church for condemnation. Please learn some facts.
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The majority of encounters in the priest abuse scandals were homosexual encounters, lacy, so that pretty much blows the "be fruitful and multiply" issue up.
The issue here wasn't, and has never been, about the heterosexual male priest's ability to live according to his vows. It was about very poor decision-making in regard to the ability of homosexual priests to do so.
"You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless until they rest in You." St. Augustine of Hippo
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Originally posted by Kim
TheSword and Lacy-1, you might want to inform yourselves before you go on singling out the Catholic Church for condemnation. Please learn some facts.
 That proves my point! stay home and read the bible and the Holy Spirit who is the best teacher will, lead, guide, direct, adn touch your heart and mind into greater truths. God picks who he wants not you, religion wont get you into heaven knowing Jesus and loving your fellow man and having a personal relationship with God is what every one needs to be a son of the most high God. lacy-1
Freedom!
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Lacy-1, did Jesus come down from Heaven and teach His Apostles for three years just so you could grab a Bible and hide in your house?
Jesus did not come here to give us a Bible, but to give us The Church.
The Church provides clarity for the Bible and community to help each other stand fast. There are predators everywhere, including schools, sports teams, children's organizations such as the Scouts and 4H Clubs, etc. But using a little common sense goes a long way when it comes to protecting our children.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Lacy-1, did Jesus come down from Heaven and teach His Apostles for three years just so you could grab a Bible and hide in your house?
Jesus did not come here to give us a Bible, but to give us The Church.
The Church provides clarity for the Bible and community to help each other stand fast. There are predators everywhere, including schools, sports teams, children's organizations such as the Scouts and 4H Clubs, etc. But using a little common sense goes a long way when it comes to protecting our children.
 Where was the bible during the dark ages? lacy-1
Freedom!
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HOH! Faith, Let not the sabboth be a burden to you and if you read all of Colossians amy have been written by a disciple of
Paul's at
, you will see it say's you did not have to observe any holy day's or sabboths. lacy-1
The Roman Catholic church claims the authority to change times and laws by sanctifying Sunday. It has no Biblical authority, nor from God either, to change a command spoken by God, written with His own finger and shouted from the mountaintop at Sinai.The Bible warns what will happen to those who teach as doctrine the traditions of men as well. lacy-1
Freedom!
Edited by lacy-1 on 11/06/2009 13:57:00
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The Bible was always there, even during the dark ages.
And as for authority, that comes directly from the Bible.
Matthew 16:18-19 " 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Matthew 18:17-18 "17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Jesus Christ established the authority of the Church very early on, and yes she has the God given authority to bind (set) or loose (lift) the rules for all who profess to be Christians.
If you have some inside information that Christ has returned to earth and lifted this authority, then you may consider following after the Jews or Seventh Day Adventists. But be aware that you would be betting your immortal soul that your information is correct.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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Thank you Faith, now the church has the authority to ordain these priests and that is fine, but if they mess up they are still bound in heaven and not loosed right? What happens to their souls for breaking their vows? I would that they never stay single and they get married for it is wrong for man to be alone and I can't stress this enough i realy cannot. lacy-1
Freedom!
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If you mean that their vows are still considered binding, yes. Vows are made to God and cannot be broken. That is why we cannot remarry after divorce either. A marriage vow, if made validly, is permanent so long as both parties live and what God hath joined, man may not put asunder - that means that even if we get a civil divorce, our marriage is still recognized in Heaven and to remarry when one is not free to marry is adultery.
A priest does not wake up one day and make vow to be a priest - there is a lengthy discernment process and many years of education. Most men should know if they are called to celibacy long before their vows are made.
Remember also, the priesthood is not the only Catholic group that is celibate - many men and women do feel called to serve God with their entire being and chose celibacy as nuns (sisters), monks (brothers), and celibate singles.
Even in the Old Testament, men and women could and did make vows of celibacy.
In the New Testament, those who would be Bishops were not allowed to have more than one wife in their lifetime - if their wife died in childbirth or some other means, they could not remarry. Paul and others chose to remain celibate - Paul affirmed that it was hard to serve God fully if one was distracted by a wife and children.
It can be difficult for man to be alone, but Christians are never fully alone, and if they are in God's service this is even more true. Paul remained celibate his whole life.
And remember Christ's words in Matthew 19, it is not celibacy that is the hard choice, but marriage. Not all are called to the vocation of marriage, only those to whom it is given.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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NO! you are very wrong Faith, If we all thought like that we would be a big world still but with very few people on it because we would choose not to multiply first and all want to be a nun or priest Monk ETC. That is not what God inteneded for the world, Jesus said suffer the little children and forbid them not to come unto me, for such is the kingdom of heaven.I know all about the Biships and their wifes and if one dies and how they stay in the church and never get re marrind either one. I know all about if you loose your wife or husband you are free to remarry, My aunt lost her husband when she was in her 30's and never remarried and raised all 7 children all alone and worked all the time to support them She wanted to be with him in heaven and thought if she remarried she would not be able to be with him, because of what she was tought she missed out on life and sharing of herself with someone else in this world.
As far as Paul and sex or anything else that is between him and God I was not there, and you were not there either. Paul had a problem with woman I realy feel this the more i read his doctrines.
You are wrong about Christ, He said "Many are called, But few are chosen" He ment to minister not to marry. Please! lacy-1 pS we are to marry each other not God because the whole Church is the Bride of Christ It is not an individual thing we choose God chooses not us! lacy-1
Freedom!
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Your aunt thought wrongly, but I do not doubt her grief was great. Widows and widowers are free to remarry in the Catholic Church, and Jesus in the scriptures affirms that in Heaven we are not given in marriage so it does not matter how many spouses we have had in life.
And you have mixed up your quotes. See Matthew 19 for the one on marriage:
Matthew 19:10-11 "10The disciples said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."
11But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given."
Jesus was referring to marriage in this statement, not celibacy.
His next line was on celibacy:
Matthew 19:12 "12"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."
We do what we do for the sake of the kingdom. Christ made it clear that marriage is permanent and we may not remarry after divorce - the Disciples heard this and thought it made marriage undesirable. They thought that Christ's words would be too hard to live up to and Christ said that not all men would be able to accept Christ's teachings on this matter, but those who have been brought into Christ could accept it.
After that, Jesus affirmed that many live as eunuchs, whether by surgery (by force) or voluntary celibacy in the service of God. This too we can accept if we trust in Jesus.
Celibacy is not mandatory for all Christians. We are each called to different vocations. Marriage is a vocation as much as priestly ordination is a vocation.
I was called to marriage and as such I have chosen to be fruitful and multiply. How many enter marriage but do not intend to be fruitfull or multiply? Marriage is a vocation with responsibilities. If one is unable to keep the vows of marriage, it is no better than if a priest breaks his vows. Whatever vows you make before God, you are bound by them.
Your quote on many being called but few chosen comes from Matthew 22 and refers to those who are invited to the wedding feast but do not prepare themselves in any way. These are tossed out into the darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth - this has nothing to do with the vocations of marriage or celibacy, but with our ability to accept Christ's teachings and act accordingly.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
Malachi 1:11 "For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name [shall be] great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense [shall be] offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name [shall be] great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."
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He never said it is better not to marry he just never did. If you want to be celibrant then be a enouch or many are born like that Perhaps Paul was?? Also he was talking about putting away their wifes only if they fonicate but nothing to be said about ever being married. You are quoting church Bishops that followed after Christ Not Christ. He would be going against God the Father's words if he was against marraige or even put being celebrant first before marriage because that was never intended fron the beginning i CAN LOVE jESUS WITH MY WHOLE HEART WITH OUT BEING ALONE TO DO SO. This is Bull ****! lacy-1 And Bull **** is not a swear, it is bold, but not swearing.
Freedom!
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