The meaning of IT IS FINISHED!
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PM
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I have heard this teaching =IT is Finished by wommack so many times that I had to give God praise and thankgiving more than ever before.I must admit while discussing the finished work of the cross and death of Jesus and saying it is finished , that Sister FAITH was correct more... I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 12/26/2011 08:14:35
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The Bible does not say anywhere that anyone is going to Hell with their sins forgiven.
Those who rejected Jesus did not know they were chosing Hell, they just did not believe. And that sin is a forgivable sin. If that were not true, then only those born into the Faith could be saved. Most converts did not start out believing.
Jesus paid our debt to sin. The debt would have sent us to Hell. The debt is paid. So no one can go to Hell if their sins are forgiven, the debt of Hell has already been paid for those whose sins have been forgiven.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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PM
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Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
The Bible does not say anywhere that anyone is going to Hell with their sins forgiven.
Those who rejected Jesus did not know they were chosing Hell, they just did not believe. And that sin is a forgivable sin. If that were not true, then only those born into the Faith could be saved. Most converts did not start out believing.
Jesus paid our debt to sin. The debt would have sent us to Hell. The debt is paid. So no one can go to Hell if their sins are forgiven, the debt of Hell has already been paid for those whose sins have been forgiven.
Then you are making the cross of no effect by saying this, and the purpose of Jesus death for us was only for born again saints and not for the whole world!
try to understand John 3:16!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
I am not making the cross of no-effect. The Cross if of great effect or none of us could be saved.
John 3:16 does not say that God is sending people to Hell with their sins forgiven.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
John 3:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
This does not say that unbelievers have their sins forgiven. It says that those who believe in Jesus may have eternal life.
Amen. Those that truly believe in Jesus will do whatever He tells them. Those that don't do this, only have head knowledge.
Devils believe and tremble. They are not saved.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
I am not making the cross of no-effect. The Cross if of great effect or none of us could be saved.
John 3:16 does not say that God is sending people to Hell with their sins forgiven.
In the first place it is not God sending or wanting anyone to go to hell!
But we have a free will to choose and many made a choice as a free will moral agent to want to go to hell as a good and some bad sinner, and all sinners go to hell period.
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Unrepentent sinners do go to Hell. Glad you admit that.
That includes all born again Christians who trample underfoot the Lord that bought them, taking Him and all He did and taught for granted.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Unrepentent sinners do go to Hell. Glad you admit that.
That includes all born again Christians who trample underfoot the Lord that bought them, taking Him and all He did and taught for granted.
Is a born again christian and a sinner the same FAITH!
It seem you are putting them in the same category!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
If a sinner refuses to repent of his or her sins, it makes no difference if he was born again or not. God is not a respecter of persons.
Of course a repentant sinner is a righteous person.
The only righteous people are those who have repented of all their sins. This includes any new ones after being born again.
See the thread that you started for "Spirit, Soul, and Body" - I gave evidence for this from Paul's own hand.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
If a sinner refuses to repent of his or her sins, it makes no difference if he was born again or not. God is not a respecter of persons.
Of course a repentant sinner is a righteous person.
The only righteous people are those who have repented of all their sins. This includes any new ones after being born again.
See the thread that you started for "Spirit, Soul, and Body" - I gave evidence for this from Paul's own hand.
What you are saying that really Vhrist has to go on the cross over and over again to get those future sins forgiven!
that is why so many times i said of Jesus didn't pay for all our furtures sins and they are already forgiven them no one can get saved!
Again the bible say the only sin which sends a person to hell is rejection of Jesus , John16:,8 and 9!
People go to because what they do with Jesus , and that is why sins as such should not be an issue, but Christ should!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
You don't understand.
Jesus is outside of time. He does not have to die over and over again to pay for our sins.
Your assertion would require that Jesus die again for each generation. Do you honestly believe that Jesus must be crucified again and again to cover each new generation? If not, then what is your problem?
Every sin that I will ever repent of has already been forgiven by Jesus who is outside of time and knows what I will do as well as what I have done.
But while Jesus has already forgiven me, I still need to repent. That is how it works.
That is why the Bible says that all our previously committed sins are covered and not our future sins. No where in the Bible does it say or even suggest that our future sins are paid for, but I have given you a number of verses that show that future sins are not forgiven and how they can be.
Christ is the biggest issue. And if Christ isn't first, then there is something wrong. Jesus should be FIRST, even before sin.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
You don't understand.
Jesus is outside of time. He does not have to die over and over again to pay for our sins.
Your assertion would require that Jesus die again for each generation. Do you honestly believe that Jesus must be crucified again and again to cover each new generation? If not, then what is your problem?
Every sin that I will ever repent of has already been forgiven by Jesus who is outside of time and knows what I will do as well as what I have done.
But while Jesus has already forgiven me, I still need to repent. That is how it works.
That is why the Bible says that all our previously committed sins are covered and not our future sins. No where in the Bible does it say or even suggest that our future sins are paid for, but I have given you a number of verses that show that future sins are not forgiven and how they can be.
Christ is the biggest issue. And if Christ isn't first, then there is something wrong. Jesus should be FIRST, even before sin.
Read again your beginning of this post you started on the right track untill you try to limit God by forgiven only our past sins.
But if God is living out of time and space , then His promise is eternal and the forgiveness of sins is forever in His case!
it might not seems so with you and man reasoning and religious philosophy , but with God sin was all took care by Jesus and His blood once and for all time.
that is why he even added on in Hbrews so people like you and your church will not twist His word to even say I remember your sins no more, which is the ice on top of the frosted cake!wwwoooowww! 
Jesus didn't say IT IS STARTED!
HE said IT IS FINISHED!
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
Edited by evangelist on 07/02/2012 03:53:06
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PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Jesus said that the Old Covenant is finished. AMEN. Why do you try to make it mean something else? The New Covenant cannot be finished or you and I could not be saved.
And I don't limit God, you just forget whatever I say.
I told you before that every sin that we will ever repent of has been forgiven by God. He is outside of time. He knows whether we will repent of all our sins or not. But we still have to repent of them.
And you are the one who is refusing to accept the Word of God. The scripture passages I gave you said explicitly that our previously committed sins are forgiven, not the future sins. Pretending that it says that our future sins are past is not effective. God's grammar is not that bad.
I gave you a number of passages that show that we need to repent of future sins, and yet you keep trying to come up with excuses. Stop trying to make void the Word of God by your tradition.
There isn't a verse that says that all future sins are forgiven. None. Not one.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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-
Contact:
PM
Member since 07/10/2003
Location: Germany
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_at_Large
Jesus said that the Old Covenant is finished. AMEN. Why do you try to make it mean something else? The New Covenant cannot be finished or you and I could not be saved.
And I don't limit God, you just forget whatever I say.
I told you before that every sin that we will ever repent of has been forgiven by God. He is outside of time. He knows whether we will repent of all our sins or not. But we still have to repent of them.
And you are the one who is refusing to accept the Word of God. The scripture passages I gave you said explicitly that our previously committed sins are forgiven, not the future sins. Pretending that it says that our future sins are past is not effective. God's grammar is not that bad.
I gave you a number of passages that show that we need to repent of future sins, and yet you keep trying to come up with excuses. Stop trying to make void the Word of God by your tradition.
There isn't a verse that says that all future sins are forgiven. None. Not one.
If you belief this what you have posted then I don't understand how can you not see that all our future sins are forgiven?
one love
I may or may not believe coming forward is a necessary condition for salvation. But, if I clearly taught elsewhere that repentance/belief alone was sufficient no one would think coming forward is necessary for salvation,or water baptism is necessary for salvation.
-
-
Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Because we are inside time. From God's perspective, all sins that we have repented of are forgiven. God knows what we will do in our future. He knows what sins we will commit and what we will repent. He knows everything that we will do and won't do.
But we don't. I have no idea what I will or won't do in the future. I can speculate and I can hope, but I don't know. So INSIDE time, my future sins are not forgiven because I have not yet committed them. And it is possible that I may refuse to repent of a future sin. I may choose sin over Christ and end up in Hell. I don't believe that I will, but it can happen.
But God knows my eternal destiny already. From HIS perspective, it is already done. He knows if I will repent of my serious sins or not. But inside time, I still have to do these things.
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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Contact:
PM
Member since 11/17/2007
Location: Canada
Look at it this way. God also knows who will convert to Christianity and who will not.
God already knows who will be saved and who won't be.
That that mean that a person does not have to accept Jesus? God already knows if he did or didn't. Does this alleviate the responsiblity of the person to do or not do what God knows he has done or not done.
Is a person saved before they accept Christ?
Pax et Bonum,
Faith_at_Large
"There are some in the Church, who not only do not do what is good, but even persecute it, and hate in others what they neglect to do themselves. The sin of these men is not that of infirmity or ignorance, but deliberate willful sin." — Pope St. Gregory the Great (AD 540-604)
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